Tom's Cafe history / Split

[GMan]

Another idea, is that you can contact WDP, the admin at kiltmen (and does at times post here) from either his kiltmen or PM here.

[The Wizard of BC]

Your best source for information on the early days of Tom's is our own Hamish.
He was there.

[Iolaus]

I haven't actually clarified exactly what I'm talking about, so for those who are curious...

My main emphasis in this speech is going to be about the renewed interest in wearing the kilt, how "Breavehearts" differ from the the other "skirt-wearers", and where the kilt has been seen in public - first on celebs, but extending that portion of the speech to include pics of everyday people in everyday situations like work and school.

I'm including a short history of the kilt's developement (great kilt, etc.) to provide some historical continuity, but mainly, I'm trying to convince a class of teen and twenty-somethings that a man wearing a kilt is not an aberration, but a representitive of a current social movement.

[highlander_Daz]

I never had any dealings with any of these aforementioned, I must admit as a traditionalist I dont like to mix the kilt up with boards that advocate the wearing of high heels purses or the lava-lava of Polynesia whatever that may be!!!

Ive nothing against men that want to wear womens attire, however its completly seperate issue than the kilt, as of course its a mans garment.

[Iolaus]

I've nothing against men that want to wear womens attire, however its completly seperate issue than the kilt, as of course its a man's garment.

Exactly my point. I want to deliniate the seperation of men's/women's garments in the minds of these college students.

[Raphael]

The original mission of Tom's cafe to have the 'Bravehearts' and the 'Freestylers' to have a common ground to meet and to discuss all the social challenges that every one faces when they are not in their pants.

The so called 'split' happened because Hank provided xmarksthescot.com as an alternative. Tom's passing accelrated the process. Also, Freestylers and lots of other Tom's cafe partons have different views in kilts. They see kilts are skirts and are fashion items. Most of them don't care the history and proper ways in kilt wearing. They tend to be more innovative and like to free of the bondages established by the traditions. Their main concern is dress the way they want, even tights under their kilts.

As for the social changes, I doubt that any website will impact how men should dress. Most men will check scores or porn first before viewing fashion pages.

If you are to talk about men's kilt fashion, you should also talk about how the metrosexual sense can help the fashion houses to include kilts to their clothing lines.

[Iolaus]

Thanks Raphael, I'll adjust my text to reflect that. As for social changes, I agree, most men are not going to think about changes until they see one of us being admired by the women around them.

The metro stuff won't fly here in orange county; for college students, they're pretty conservative. Besides, I'm already having to trim some stuff out; I only have 8 - 10 minutes, and it's suprising how quickly the minutes go by!

[Canuck]

The time I noticed the split was after the Million skirted men march in New York. The press featured a gentleman in skirt and high heels as well as a gent in a female skaters outfit. The majority of the marchers were in kilts led by a fife and drum corp wearing Utility kilts. The march was a hoot, lots of colourful kilts, tartans and plain. There were close to a hundred of us and about 15- 20 were "freestylers" First time I came across them...no big deal. Just the press made a big deal of it and the folks that did not participate ragged on the march and it got rather hot at the cafe. As mentioned before xmarks was just starting out and an invitation was sent out to the kilted folk to join. A lot of us just decided to take our beverages with us and sit down for a spell. Still looking for the potted palm with Hamish's table, and the pool...but this place is OK..LOL

[Iolaus]

Wow, this whole thing was more complicated than I thought. It's getting bigger than I'm going to be able to fit, and since I'm already out of time and starting to trim here and there, I'm going to stick with a short, general statement:

In 1996, Tom’s Café was established as a web presence. From what I have been able to glean from early participants of that forum, the initial focus was to be on fashion freedom and accepting of all types of men’s wraps. It was supposed to be a halfway point for two extremes to meet, those extremes being the Bravehearts, who advocated traditional men’s wear like the kilt and other traditional garb, and the Freestylers, who advocated wearing anything and saw these garments as just more skirts in their closet. The resulting mix of these two camps did not go well, and in 2000, many of the Bravehearts moved on to two other forums that had started up, Kiltmen.com, which had the by-line “Bravehearts in Kilts Against Trouser Tyranny”, and XMarksTheScot.com. Both of these forums have become very successful, and are considered the go-to sites for the kilt-wearing community.

I know there are other sites, but these are the big ones, and while I may seem to be giving less time to our sites, my point here is to draw a line between us and the freestylers, since, as Canuck pointed out, they are the face the media likes to use to represent the combined mass.

[Jimmy Carbomb]

The time I noticed the split was after the Million skirted men march in New York. The press featured a gentleman in skirt and high heels as well as a gent in a female skaters outfit. The majority of the marchers were in kilts led by a fife and drum corp wearing Utility kilts.

You're right Robert. It's one thing to talk about the garments over the internet, and to "picture" what your online friends are like. THEN... you see them in person... in sequined gowns. YIKES!

I couldn't give a rat's **** about anyone's sexual orientation. I couldn't give even more about what anyone choses to wear. I DO give a hoot about associating the Celtic traditions and tartan heritage with an off-the-shoulder number and slingbacks!!! There IS a difference... and that just seemed to put it all into perspective. After that time, I think I went to Tom's cafe twice. Once to check on Tom's condition, and once to convey my condolences.