First Trad Kilt: an ongoing thread

**Barb T** · 7th November 05, 06:52 PM

Hi Alan

Just a few things:

Did you pick the same center back stripe that you did for the front of the kilt? Traditional kilts typically have the same stripe centered front and back.

Having a really deep first pleat isn't actually the solution to the problem of the first pleat "kicking forward". In fact, having a really deep first pleat can add problems of its own, so don't overdo it. Ideally, the deep pleat should be around 5" deep. Keeping it from kicking forward is a combination of following the instructions about skewing the back of the tartan when shaping by pulling up on the back of the pleat when you baste it into shape and also making sure that you have enough flare from the hips down. The apron edges shouldn't be straight but should flare some. But, again, you can overdo it. My experience, with a waist/hip pleat differential of only 1/2" on each side (as you have) that 1 3/4" is actually too much. But, you can always baste it and try it on once it's pleated but before it's pressed to see if the apron edge wants to fold in a different place than you've basted.

Are you pleating to the stripe? If so, an even number of pleats is OK. But, if you're pleating to the sett, and you've chosen a center back stripe, you have to have an odd number of pleats.

Cheers!

Barb

**flyv65** · 7th November 05, 07:17 PM

Wow.

No really-

WOW.

It is threads like this that show the breadth of knowledge present on this board, and just how much goes into stitching a kilt. My Balmoral is off to all of the kiltmakers, amateur or professional. Slainte.

Bryan...it doesn't make waiting for a kilt easier to bear, but it does make it more understandable...

**KiltedCodeWarrior** · 7th November 05, 09:10 PM

Bryan, I have to agree! I have Barb's book and am in the process of making my own kilt, with material for another waiting, but it is still impressive to see this kind of detail and exchange, especially because I UNDERSTAND what the heck they are talking about! Since I am working with solid colors, I am left in awe at someone who undertakes to make a kilt out of tartan cloth, and that includes our own Alan, who may be cussing his undertaking as we speak!

**Southern Breeze** · 8th November 05, 04:27 AM

Every time I work on my kilt I gain a new respect for all the pros out there.My hats off to Barb and all the others who patiently give answers to all the new guys.Kiltmaking is indeed a labor of love.

**Alan H** · 13th November 05, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Barb T.

Hi Alan

Just a few things:

Did you pick the same center back stripe that you did for the front of the kilt? Traditional kilts typically have the same stripe centered front and back.

Having a really deep first pleat isn't actually the solution to the problem of the first pleat "kicking forward". In fact, having a really deep first pleat can add problems of its own, so don't overdo it. Ideally, the deep pleat should be around 5" deep. Keeping it from kicking forward is a combination of following the instructions about skewing the back of the tartan when shaping by pulling up on the back of the pleat when you baste it into shape and also making sure that you have enough flare from the hips down. The apron edges shouldn't be straight but should flare some. But, again, you can overdo it. My experience, with a waist/hip pleat differential of only 1/2" on each side (as you have) that 1 3/4" is actually too much. But, you can always baste it and try it on once it's pleated but before it's pressed to see if the apron edge wants to fold in a different place than you've basted.

Are you pleating to the stripe? If so, an even number of pleats is OK. But, if you're pleating to the sett, and you've chosen a center back stripe, you have to have an odd number of pleats.

Cheers!

Barb

Barb, I did pick the same center back stripe as I picked for the front of the kilt, but it's a moot point. I'm pleating to the stripe, but I'm pleating to a minor stripe in the pattern, because the strongest ones are'nt "symmetrical".

I really picked a stinker of a tartan to start with, you know? This'll have 24 pleats, each with a 1-inch reveal at the hip measurement.

I've started sewing pleats. The first one (under the left-hand edge of the apron) is going to be about 7 inches deep. About 5 of those inches will be actually under the apron, in two, 2.5 inch bits of material to make one 5 inch deep pleat.

**Alan H** · 13th November 05, 11:00 PM

OK, another update with time counts.

I basted the edges of the over-apron a while ago, but I don't think I wrote in how long it took.....about 45 minutes.

OK, I have now hand-held and sewn in in the first two pleats THREE TIMES and ripped them out all three times. This has burned up something like four hours of time, but I simply cannot hold/pin those suckers straight. I've held them every which way, stared at your pictures, Barb, and tried all kinds of things and I'm FRUSTRATED. There's a black stripe running down the middle of my red pleats and they looked like earthworms with the conniptions. GAAAAAAA!!!!!

Yup, sewed 'em in, ripped 'em out three times. That ate two evenings.

So tonight I finally just laid those babies out on my lap and basted six of 'em. Son of a gun, they look pretty good. They're not perfect but they're a HECK of a lot better than the earlier ones. I basted six pleats in about an hour and a half. Now that they're held in place I can probably sew those puppies in, in another hour and a half. Basting pleats from the waistline to the bottom of the fell is THE TICKET, if you ask me.

**Barb T** · 14th November 05, 06:43 AM

The real disadvantage in basting a bunch of pleats first is that you have to bunch up the fabric to stitch the pleats and you've lost the very real advantage of being able to run your left hand along the pleat as you stitch. Plus, it's tougher to put smooth and even tension on the pleat, and a pleat has to be basted at absolutely the perfect size, or errors compound.

I've found that lots of pins on each pleat solves the problem when people are having trouble and lets you do one pleat at a time. Good pinning is actually more accurate than basting and holds just as well _provided_ that you pin perpendicular to the pleat, not parallel to it. If you're pleating to the stripe, measure as you put each pin in to make sure that the stripe is, in fact, centered.

At any rate, if you're going to baste the pleats, at least baste only one at a time so that you can stitch through only what you need to stitch through and so that other pleats aren't in the way when you're trying to stitch.

Barb

**David Thornton** · 14th November 05, 06:49 AM

Alan, does one wear a $5000 kilt or donate it to a museum? Kidding of course, but your discourse does make one appreciate a really nice hand made.
David

**Alan H** · 14th November 05, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Barb T.

The real disadvantage in basting a bunch of pleats first is that you have to bunch up the fabric to stitch the pleats and you've lost the very real advantage of being able to run your left hand along the pleat as you stitch. Plus, it's tougher to put smooth and even tension on the pleat, and a pleat has to be basted at absolutely the perfect size, or errors compound.

I've found that lots of pins on each pleat solves the problem when people are having trouble and lets you do one pleat at a time. Good pinning is actually more accurate than basting and holds just as well _provided_ that you pin perpendicular to the pleat, not parallel to it. If you're pleating to the stripe, measure as you put each pin in to make sure that the stripe is, in fact, centered.

At any rate, if you're going to baste the pleats, at least baste only one at a time so that you can stitch through only what you need to stitch through and so that other pleats aren't in the way when you're trying to stitch.

Barb

I did discover that pinning perpendicular to the pleat edge was a lot more accurate than pinning parallel to the edge. Yup, yup.

You know, I notice that this wool material is not as dimensionally stable as the stuff from Fraser and Kirkbright. I wonder if that's contributing to the problem.

Barb, i just basted the pleat down to one layer of fabric underneath, not all the way through to the next pleat. I'lllet you know how it goes.

**Barb T** · 14th November 05, 11:51 AM

If the wool is flabby, it's more difficult, true. That could easily be part of the problem!

No matter how many thicknesses you baste through, the real issue is having a bunch of basted pleats in the way when you're trying to sew one. If you're going to baste, baste and stitch one at at time, and it will be easier. In the long run, though, I think you'll find it easier and more accurate to pin. But, it's up to you!!

Barb