Tartan Police!

[AckZel]

Yeah, and if somebody starts whining about "You are wearing OUR tartan and you're not a member of the clan MacX!" just say him that "No, but I really admire all highlanders, and most of all MacX's!". No clansmen will deny it after that (Or if he belongs to the clan in question you can say: "Yes, I'm wearing it because you ain't!")

[Archangel]

Yeah, and if somebody starts whining about "You are wearing OUR tartan and you're not a member of the clan MacX! (Or if he belongs to the clan in question you can say: "Yes, I'm wearing it because you ain't!")

oooo, that's just plain nasty, I like it.

[Prester John]

The "I'm wearing it because you ain't" comeback is golden.

[GMan]

I ain't going to complain, because that is one classy comeback.

[MacConnachie]

Excellent posts, Matt & David -- you've done grand in summing up why for some, the tartan is a "talisman and totem".

Blu: I know several people who wear their "family" tartan not as a kilt, but in the form of a shirt, tie, scarf, etc. and do not see that version as "trivializing" their tartan -- for some, that is the only version of the tartan they can afford at the moment, since a traditional kilt is more of an investment, or they don't (for whatever reason) want to wear one. Granted, you only see the more "common" tartans (BW, Stewart Royal, Buchanan, Lindsay, etc.) in some of the garment types you mention; I would personally love to see someone wearing a Cumming tartan shirt on the street! ;)

I've had some very good conversations with folks wearing garments in particular tartans who knew nothing about the history of tartans, etc.

Cheers,

Todd

Just wanted to add my second to your thoughts here, Todd.

As to tartan items, I started with a necktie in the Duncan sett. Next came a tam and scarf in the Anc. Hunting Robertson. Finally, my first kilt, a bit over 6 yards of Mod. Hunting Robertson for a great kilt. The rest of my decisions in kilt purchase have, for the larger part, been based on clan (Donnachaidh/Robertson) or pipe band (Gordons and Black Watch) affiliations, although the synthetic Royal Stuart was primarily for a "look-see" (and it will go to the first person who says he/she wants the thing). The perhaps notable exception is the Paisley District tartan; primary considerations in the purchase of that tank from a gent on eBay were the look, the size, and the price -- all three were right, for me.

Mac

[macwilkin]

Just wanted to add my second to your thoughts here, Todd.

As to tartan items, I started with a necktie in the Duncan sett. Next came a tam and scarf in the Anc. Hunting Robertson. Finally, my first kilt, a bit over 6 yards of Mod. Hunting Robertson for a great kilt. The rest of my decisions in kilt purchase have, for the larger part, been based on clan (Donnachaidh/Robertson) or pipe band (Gordons and Black Watch) affiliations, although the synthetic Royal Stuart was primarily for a "look-see" (and it will go to the first person who says he/she wants the thing). The perhaps notable exception is the Paisley District tartan; primary considerations in the purchase of that tank from a gent on eBay were the look, the size, and the price -- all three were right, for me.

Mac

That's my point exactly; a tartan scarf, tie, shirt, etc. may lead someone to a kilt, if they are wearing it as a symbol of their heritage.

Cheers,

Todd

[prattw]

[snip]
The Black Watch Tartan is the modern version of the Campbell Clan Tartan, it is not endorsed by the Clan Cheif, the ancient verion is endorsed by the Clan Cheif.
[snip]

Actually the Government or Blackwatch sett dates to at least 1739, well before any known clan tartans. Legend says that it was a Campbell tartan, adopted because so many Campbells served in the Regiment. Legend also says that it was a Grant tartan, adopted because so many Grants served in the regiment!

It is far more likely that it was adopted by Campbell and Grant (and at least four additional clans) because so many of their members had served in the 42nd. And probably all of them have the legend.

"Ancient" refers to the color intensity, intended to resemble the old vegetable dyes after they'd faded from a few years wear. It displays the sett much more clearly, which is specifically why the present Chief of Grant specified Ancient colors both for Grant and Grant Hunting (aka Black Watch).

My own clan, Grant, is one of the few where any hint exists of there being any specified tartan for the clan prior to the 19th century. In 1704 the Chief specified that his men were to wear "red and green broad sprigged" when serving him. In 1714 two portraits were painted of his "Champion" (i.e. body guard) and his piper wearing it, and it bears no resemblance at all to the present Grant sett. Reconstructed thread counts from the portraits vary slightly, and the reconstructed setts are known as "Grant Champion" and "Grant Piper".

Will Pratt

[macwilkin]

In 1714 two portraits were painted of his "Champion" (i.e. body guard) and his piper wearing it, and it bears no resemblance at all to the present Grant sett. Reconstructed thread counts from the portraits vary slightly, and the reconstructed setts are known as "Grant Champion" and "Grant Piper".

Will, very interesting -- the Piper to the Grant Chief you mentioned was one William Cumming. The Cummings and the Grants were "neighbours" and at one point adversaries (Lord Strathspey still has a skull of the one of the Cumming Chiefs as a trophy at Castle Grant) before serving as pipers. I'd like to see the "Grant Piper" tartan.

Cheers,

Todd

[prattw]

Will, very interesting -- the Piper to the Grant Chief you mentioned was one William Cumming. The Cummings and the Grants were "neighbours" and at one point adversaries (Lord Strathspey still has a skull of the one of the Cumming Chiefs as a trophy at Castle Grant) before serving as pipers. I'd like to see the "Grant Piper" tartan.

Cheers,

Todd

Todd,

Greetings, Kinsman.

You can find Grant Champion on the House of Tartan tartan finder, here: http://www.house-of-tartan.scotland....se/tfinder.htp

I've only seen Grant Piper once and haven't been able to relocate it. It differs only in relative widths of the bands, and is called "Piper" only because it came from that portrait. The important fact here is that they seemingly weren't too "high church" about exact thread counts then.

I tried to paste Grant Champion here, but it isna' workin'. Just go to the House of Tartan website and use the alphabetical list.

Will

[Archangel]

Todd,

Greetings, Kinsman.

You can find Grant Champion on the House of Tartan tartan finder, here: http://www.house-of-tartan.scotland....se/tfinder.htp

I've only seen Grant Piper once and haven't been able to relocate it. It differs only in relative widths of the bands, and is called "Piper" only because it came from that portrait. The important fact here is that they seemingly weren't too "high church" about exact thread counts then.

I tried to paste Grant Champion here, but it isna' workin'. Just go to the House of Tartan website and use the alphabetical list.

Will

FWIW, Hesketh's Tartans has them as separate tartans on pages 8 and 9. Not a huge difference except that the piper's seems to be hemmed (?) in red and the champion is more tan, but the print quality is lacking.