Not appropriate for a soldier?

[Archangel]

Seems there's a loophole:

http://iwvpa.net/sizemoref/bagpiper.htm

Nope, been discussed in other threads. He is wearing a kilt when off-duty, in fact, he got a few kilts from advertisers here, I believe.

(...and how ignorant of the media to take American stereotypes and ignore black Scots...)

[Archangel]

Finland has a great martial tradition, but keep it very quiet. Correct me if I'm wrong but, basically, during WW2, Finland was at war with the whole world. She originally defended herself against the Russia/Germany alliance but when Russia joined the Allies, Finland refused to allow Russia any part in the Alliance. No Russian was allowed in Finland. It was a very brutal war using avalanches as weapons.

For those reasons, if my info is correct, I'd suggest the Cameron's as the last official kilt of WW2.

[macwilkin]

Finland has a great martial tradition, but keep it very quiet. Correct me if I'm wrong but, basically, during WW2, Finland was at war with the whole world. She originally defended herself against the Russia/Germany alliance but when Russia joined the Allies, Finland refused to allow Russia any part in the Alliance. No Russian was allowed in Finland. It was a very brutal war using avalanches as weapons.

For those reasons, if my info is correct, I'd suggest the Cameron's as the last official kilt of WW2.

Suggested Reading: William Trotter's "A Frozen Hell:The Russo-Finnish Winter War of 1939-1940". The Finns fought two wars against the Russians; the Winter War and the "Continuation War", or World War Two, as well as the Lapland War in 1944-1945 against the Germans.

Trotter's book was one of the most riveting books I have read. I greatly admire the Finnish people, their gallantry and courage after reading it.

Now, as to potential tartans: I had a look in "The Mark of the Scots" by Duncan Bruce and he mentions two Scots soldiers-of-fortune with the name Ramsay; Hans Ramsay, who was a cavalry officer in the 1500's, and Anders Ramsay, who was commander-in-chief of Finnish military forces in the late 1800's.

I found theses artices about the Ramsays in Finland:

http://www.eddieramsay.com/finland_Ramsay's.htm

http://www.kolumbus.fi/andreas.ramsay/clan_eng.htm

http://www.geocities.com/rammac.geo/clan.htm

I would say that the Ramsay tartan would be a good choice for a Finn wishing to honour the links between Finland and Scotland, especially the "Ramsay Blue" tartan:

http://www.clanramsay.org/ramsblue.gif

And finally, for reference, the Clan Ramsay Society's web site:

http://www.clanramsay.org/

I hope this helps!

Cheers,

Todd

[GMan]

Ackwell,

I cannot say much of anything to say, except what a "bummer".

It does sound like you have the idea after you are off duty.

[Archangel]

oh, yeah, sure, Todd, give references and all. blow my suggestion out of the water...and I was going to invite them into the McGregor clan.

BTW, that authority thing that keeps coming up, Ackwell is not under authority at the point in question. An officer is insisting on a policy that doesn't exist but Ackwell has to follow it, or face consequences later when the authority has an actual force. Do I have it right?

[Graham]

BTW, that authority thing that keeps coming up, Ackwell is not under authority at the point in question. An officer is insisting on a policy that doesn't exist but Ackwell has to follow it, or face consequences later when the authority has an actual force. Do I have it right?

Is there really any difference? Having survived 53 without being in the military I am not an expert.
If policy can be questioned freely before authority bares it's teeth, then I would say do it! if it's important.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

oh, yeah, sure, Todd, give references and all. blow my suggestion out of the water...and I was going to invite them into the McGregor clan.

BTW, that authority thing that keeps coming up, Ackwell is not under authority at the point in question. An officer is insisting on a policy that doesn't exist but Ackwell has to follow it, or face consequences later when the authority has an actual force. Do I have it right?

Archangel, I think that you have it right based on what Ackwell has said, but military service is much different from working for a company and getting a paycheck every week. Not saying it is right or wrong, but the foundation of any military organization is discipline and obeying the orders of a superior officer. You really can't view being a soldier as a 9-5 job. You are a soldier for the entire term of your enlistment, 24x7, even while you are theoretically "off-duty" (at least in the US). Granted, in a perfect world the Major(s) in question would express their opinion of Ackwell's civilian dress choices, provide some reason for the kilt being inappropriate, and then allow Ackwell to make his own decision without any "work place" consequences.

The other thing that I would like Ackwell to clarify is whether service in the guild is completely something he took on himself and "just happened" to meet one of his superiors there. That is one scenario and in that case, I would agree that his superior has absolutely no call to question anything he does, although Ackwell should still honor his service and behave as a gentleman (which I am sure he does). However, if service in the guild is something that is promoted by his superiors (and the military service he is part of), is expected of him to support and attend, and affects his superiors' perception of him, then I submit that it is really a "work" sponsored and mandated activity and taking note of his employers dress code in that situation is prudent.

[Archangel]

Archangel, I think that you have it right based on what Ackwell has said, but military service is much different from working for a company and getting a paycheck every week.

I understand that, I've had two jobs that were with the services while I stayed civvy. The real issue is how far removed is it from his job/service.

As an aside, I had a supervisor get insistent about a personal issue that was not work related and hard to get away from until he said the magic words...."who wears the pants in your house anyway?" To which I replied, "I'm from Scotland, I don't even understand the question." (He's seen me in the kilt.)
I left him banging his head on his desk.

[Yaish]

Two issues:

First, military service is about obeying the lawful orders of your superiors. If the officer in question has the authority to determine proper dress for civilian attire, then its a lawful order. Normally in the US this authority rests with a base Commanding General, who issues such orders or delegates that authority to Unit Commanders. For example, in the US Marines wearing tank tops or untucked shirts is against regulations, as is not wearing a belt in any item with belt loops.
If the officer in question lacks that authority then piss on him, its not a lawful order. If he tries to give a subordinate any problems because of it he could get in trouble. (and here the real world enters into play: He can probably make your life hell and get away with it, and you can probably complain but without a sympathetic commander good luck)

Now, the second point. Yes its true that military members agree to adhere to and follow a second set of laws and rules. In the US its the UCMJ, I'm sure other countries have their own versions. However, anyone who thinks they are living free and clear of any authority because they arent in the military is sadly deluded.
Try walking down the street naked.
Try walking into your neighbors house (naked or not, I dont care) and taking their home theater system.
Try driving with the pedal to the floor as you go down the freeway.
Try ignoring the tax collector.

I'm sure you get the picture. You've just gotten used to the rules and authority you are familiar with and rarely recognize it. For long term military members its much the same thing. You feel just as 'free' once you've gotten used to the rules. For the most part the difference in the level of authority over civilians and the military is merely a matter of appearances. (with a few granted large exceptions)