Question for Hamish - White Dress Shirts

[macwilkin]

Button down collars and barrel cuffs are fine for the charcoal tweed jacket, but I prefer spread collar and french cuffs w/ an Argyle jacket and a wing collar w/ french cuffs for the PC.

Technically, the wing collar is reserved for white tie. Black tie, such as the PC, should have a "stand-and-fall" or regular collar formal shirt. However, the wing collar shirt has been associated with formal wear so much that it's now become almost "optional" these days.

My formal shirt from TM Lewin is a "stand and fall" collar with french cuffs. I find it to be much more comfortable at formal affairs, especially when the cleaners puts too much starch on your shirt and the wing collar is stiff as a board, rubbing against your neck.

But, that's just my preference...

Cheers,

Todd

[flyv65]

Technically, the wing collar is reserved for white tie. Black tie, such as the PC, should have a "stand-and-fall" or regular collar formal shirt. However, the wing collar shirt has been associated with formal wear so much that it's now become almost "optional" these days.

I know that white tie is only wing collar, but I thought the days of wing collars only being worn for white tie events ended about the same time Packard closed the factory doors. I suspect that the proliferation of wing collars for formal events began with the rental clothing industry, for much the same reason we're seeing white kilt hose for formal highland wear: ease and simplicity on the part of the rental shop. I wouldn't be surprised to see white hose for formalwear become just as accepted as the wing collar is today if kilt rentals continue to increase.

I suspect that, just as the fashion pendulum swung away from ruffled, pastel formal shirts (the 70's) to the wing collar (80's), then on to the mandarin collar the 90's), we'll see drop collars become more popular again (before we slide back into the ruffled shirt phase [shudder])

Bryan...bet you can guess when I actually bought (instead of renting) my first tuxedo...

[switchblade5984]

hahaha 2 pages no Hamish lol well looks like you dot alot of opinions!

and i second the kilt book for dummies by hamish

[Robin]

Hamish probably has no time right now...writing his book :mrgreen:

[Nick]

I gave up button down collars for spread collars a while ago, because I sometimes wear a tiebar with my ties. I've wanted to get French cuffs, but I haven't been able to find them here until recently. Target of all places currently has some very very nice French cuff shirts. But they're $30, and that's $30 I don't have at the moment, and with the holidays coming up, I'm not going to be spending much on myself for a while. I don't have many occasions to dress up, so I can wait.

[flyv65]

Hey yeah, I forgot all about my tiebars (I think I've still got two tucked away with my studs and cufflinks someplace). I liked them, but they sometimes didn't stay put very well. Also, the company that required me to wear dress shirts and ties was peopled by socially autistic engineers who weren't sure I wasn't some kind of subversive 'cuz of the tiebars (and the fact that I didn't own *anything* made of polyester couldn't have made them comfortable). Re-locating from Atlanta to the Rockies solved most of my wardrobe problem: jeans and a polo shirt for day to day, chinos if I have to meet with the Big Dogs (if only I could do emergency response in a kilt!).

Bryan...I've often pondered the UK workmans model for fieldwork-but couldn't sell the idea to the H&S wonks from HQ...

[Cawdorian]

I am sure Hamish will weigh in when he gets time, don't forget there is a six or seven hour time difference between the Eastern US and England.

[Shotdir]

Hamish,
First let me say "very nice photo gallery"

Let me preface this with "USUALLY"

French Cuffs are usually a shirt cuff that folds back on itself and is then "buttoned" with cuff links. Barrel cuffs overlap and button with a button.
french cuffs are usually larger in the sleeve since they have the tails of the cuffs pulled together.
No more than 3/4 of an inch of your cuff and preferably 1/2 should be all that shows when you shoot them.

Button down collars are not formal, many men wear them with business attire (blame Brooks Brothers!) but they are not formal wear.

Plain and/or pleated front shirts are usually what is worn with tails.

Mourning clothes are a formal cutaway jacket and striped trousers for early formal wear usually worn with a wing collar and an ascot or four in hand

Both black tie and white tie use a wing collar and a bow tie in that colour.
Black tie (and tails) is usually reserved for after 6 pm formal wear (think blue dress A).
White tie is the height of fashion for formality (Blue dress A).

Hamish, have you seen a bow tie matching the tartan worn with a PC? How does that look, too busy or hideous?

a Tux jacket was not really formal, although now it is accepted as such. White jacket tuxedos aka "dinner jackets" are also seen as "stylish" for many over here.

I actually don't think that French Cuffs would look all that good with a PC


Ed

[Hamish]

hahaha 2 pages no Hamish lol well looks like you dot alot of opinions!

and i second the kilt book for dummies by hamish

Huh? Wassallthisaboutthen?

[Nick]

Hamish, "French Cuff", for the purposes of this thread, could probably be said to be any kind of cuff that requires a cufflink, though I think all the various styles have different names.

There are regional differences in the US, but here "Dress shirt" refers to a (usually white) button down collared shirt, I think that'd be the same as your business shirt. If I follow you about the pleats down the front, that's what's worn with a tuxedo.