Question for Hamish - White Dress Shirts

[Robin]

Hamish probably has no time right now...writing his book :mrgreen:

[Nick]

I gave up button down collars for spread collars a while ago, because I sometimes wear a tiebar with my ties. I've wanted to get French cuffs, but I haven't been able to find them here until recently. Target of all places currently has some very very nice French cuff shirts. But they're $30, and that's $30 I don't have at the moment, and with the holidays coming up, I'm not going to be spending much on myself for a while. I don't have many occasions to dress up, so I can wait.

[flyv65]

Hey yeah, I forgot all about my tiebars (I think I've still got two tucked away with my studs and cufflinks someplace). I liked them, but they sometimes didn't stay put very well. Also, the company that required me to wear dress shirts and ties was peopled by socially autistic engineers who weren't sure I wasn't some kind of subversive 'cuz of the tiebars (and the fact that I didn't own *anything* made of polyester couldn't have made them comfortable). Re-locating from Atlanta to the Rockies solved most of my wardrobe problem: jeans and a polo shirt for day to day, chinos if I have to meet with the Big Dogs (if only I could do emergency response in a kilt!).

Bryan...I've often pondered the UK workmans model for fieldwork-but couldn't sell the idea to the H&S wonks from HQ...

[Cawdorian]

I am sure Hamish will weigh in when he gets time, don't forget there is a six or seven hour time difference between the Eastern US and England.

[Shotdir]

Hamish,
First let me say "very nice photo gallery"

Let me preface this with "USUALLY"

French Cuffs are usually a shirt cuff that folds back on itself and is then "buttoned" with cuff links. Barrel cuffs overlap and button with a button.
french cuffs are usually larger in the sleeve since they have the tails of the cuffs pulled together.
No more than 3/4 of an inch of your cuff and preferably 1/2 should be all that shows when you shoot them.

Button down collars are not formal, many men wear them with business attire (blame Brooks Brothers!) but they are not formal wear.

Plain and/or pleated front shirts are usually what is worn with tails.

Mourning clothes are a formal cutaway jacket and striped trousers for early formal wear usually worn with a wing collar and an ascot or four in hand

Both black tie and white tie use a wing collar and a bow tie in that colour.
Black tie (and tails) is usually reserved for after 6 pm formal wear (think blue dress A).
White tie is the height of fashion for formality (Blue dress A).

Hamish, have you seen a bow tie matching the tartan worn with a PC? How does that look, too busy or hideous?

a Tux jacket was not really formal, although now it is accepted as such. White jacket tuxedos aka "dinner jackets" are also seen as "stylish" for many over here.

I actually don't think that French Cuffs would look all that good with a PC


Ed

[macwilkin]

French cuffs are very appropriate for black tie, such as the Prince Charlie, Ed.

See my earlier post concerning Brooks Brothers and the button-down collar -- BB introduced it for polo players, not for gents to wear with business attire! ;)

Full size medals ("gongs") are not worn with mess dress -- miniature medals ("minis") are.

Cheers,

Todd

[Shotdir]

Cajun,

I did not say that French cuffs were not appropriate. I said I would not wear them as they fill the sleeve fuller.

The comment about the button downs were directed to another post about dress shirts being of the button down variety.

As for mini medals, excuse me I should have said - Mess dress was declared obsolete in 1992 and this is what was substituted (white dress obsolete in 2000)

Blue dress uniforms are designated as follows:

a. The blue dress "A" uniform includes the blue dress coat with large medals. This uniform will not be worn for leave or liberty.

See: http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/d03d7c03f8e805e8852570af0052a0de/$FILE/DSC_3904.jpg

Thanks
Ed

[macwilkin]

Cajun,

I did not say that French cuffs were not appropriate. I said I would not wear them as they fill the sleeve fuller.

The comment about the button downs were directed to another post about dress shirts being of the button down variety.

As for mini medals, excuse me I should have said - Mess dress was declared obsolete in 1992 and this is what was substituted (white dress obsolete in 2000)

Blue dress uniforms are designated as follows:

a. The blue dress "A" uniform includes the blue dress coat with large medals. This uniform will not be worn for leave or liberty.

See: http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/d03d7c03f8e805e8852570af0052a0de/$FILE/DSC_3904.jpg

Thanks
Ed

Are you referring to the US military? In the British Army and the forces of other Commonwealth nations, the miniature medal is the rule for mess dress, which is not the same as the Class "A" uniform, where full-size gongs are apropriate.

Sorry for the confusion,

Todd