Crackdown urged over kilt cheats

[Bob C]

Hopefully this won't ignite a flame war, but this touches on one of my pet peeves.

No flames from me. I say you're wrong, but you have every right to hold those opinions.

Scottish manufacturers DO charge for more than reasonable markup, because the market supports it. I do not blame them for getting what they can. I have a "tank" that I paid well over $500 for. I sure won't be buying many at prices like that. Most people won't buy any. It's not just the kilts, either - all the accessories are priced far over their actual value, too. Again, if the market allows them to get away with that, I don't begrudge them getting what they can.

The market only supports that because of snobbery, and the expectation that one must pay through the nose for kilts and accessories. If foreign manufacturers change that, making kilting more accessible to the masses, then I think that's great.


ADDENDUM: It occurs to me that I may seem to be picking on Scottish manufacturers, which was not my intent. The same principle applies to MANY marketed items. The example that comes quickest to my mind is I-Pods. They're no better than any other mp3 player, but they're WAY overpriced. People are paying for the name, rather than the function. It's their right to do so, but it's not very smart.

[macwilkin]

No flames from me. I say you're wrong, but you have every right to hold those opinions.

Scottish manufacturers DO charge for more than reasonable markup, because the market supports it. I do not blame them for getting what they can. I have a "tank" that I paid well over $500 for. I sure won't be buying many at prices like that. Most people won't buy any. It's not just the kilts, either - all the accessories are priced far over their actual value, too. Again, if the market allows them to get away with that, I don't begrudge them getting what they can.

The market only supports that because of snobbery, and the expectation that one must pay through the nose for kilts and accessories. If foreign manufacturers change that, making kilting more accessible to the masses, then I think that's great.

ADDENDUM: It occurs to me that I may seem to be picking on Scottish manufacturers, which was not my intent. The same principle applies to MANY marketed items. The example that comes quickest to my mind is I-Pods. They're no better than any other mp3 player, but they're WAY overpriced. People are paying for the name, rather than the function. It's their right to do so, but it's not very smart.

Bob -- the old maxim, "You get what you pay for" certainly applies here. I personally don't mind paying a little bit more for a good quality product from a long-established firm like William Chisholm, Kinloch Anderson, Hector Russell, etc. These people know their business, much like Brooks Brothers or TM Lewin knows theirs. Sometimes names do stand for quality, and I would rather patronize an old firm whose name does so to ensure that their craftsmanship is around for a while.

I do agree that accessory prices are a bit steep at times, but the key to owning a traditional kilt and all of the proper kit is to buy it gradually. Yes, I know folks today are always in a hurry and demand instant gratification, but the excitement and anticipation is half the fun. It took me 10 years to get to where I am in regarding to my "kilt kit", but I would have lost something had I rushed out and bought everything in one fell swoop. I learned that lesson the hard way in Civil War reenacting. When I first started in the hobby, I bought kit willy-nilly and as a consequence, had to replace shoddy gear quickly, not to mention updating the collection for authenticity standards. Research was (and still is) the key.

Cheers,

Todd

[MACKAY]

I was going to reply, but I outsource all my reply work to an off shore company in India, and I keep having problems with Quality Control. As soon as we get it fixed I'll be sure to post a reply.

Brian Mackay

[possingk]

I was going to reply, but I outsource all my reply work to an off shore company in India, and I keep having problems with Quality Control. As soon as we get it fixed I'll be sure to post a reply.

Brian Mackay

The worst part about your statement is that it is true for a lot of companies. It is also a major reason that I work for the commonwealth.

To be on topic though I think it is great that Scotland is doing this it gives the kilt makers pride to put that tag on, much like I am sure it gives the local kilt maker here the pride to put the made in the USA label on thier kilts.

The one thing I will say is that I don't own a traditional eight yard kilt, and most likely won't for a long time. I know when I bought my SWK that it wasn't made in Scotland, or the USA, but I wanted a kilt to get me started. Now I am not really happy that it was made off shore, but at the time it was what I could afford. I will probably get a few more SWK's, but my goal is to have as many american made kilts as I do SWK's

[Mike n NC]

To get back to the kilt line of this thread... I have to disagree with the thought that people buy what they can afford. Not true, if it were family sedans wouldn't have passed the 30K mark and the credit card industry would not be blooming.

People buy what they want as evidenced by some of our members, saving, working extra hours, doing whatever to buy that "tank". When told that I would have to pay two, three, four or even five hundred dollars I don't even bat an eye. It may take a few days, weeks or maybe months to get up the funds but if that is what it takes, so be it.

Even as a young sailor I paid for quality in clothing, having been taught that I would get my worth out of it. Now on $79 a month it is a bit of a stretch to buy a good 2 or 3 piece suit but I did it. I can only remember buying 2 suits in my life that cost less than $500 so why would I complain about that price for a kilt? Am I going to pay that for a kilt/jacket or other parts that I wear every day, day in and day out and that may be damaged or destroyed? No more than I would wear one of my custom tailored suits in place of jeans.

Bottom line is that people will buy what they want, when they want it. It is becoming more and more incumbent on the cottage buisness to keep prices down and that business here, what with the larger companies outsourcing as they are.

I'm going to buy what I want based on what I want it for but should I end up with a "made in Scotland" product that I find to be produced elsewhere, look out. I want the truth about what is in it and where it came from.

Parting shot. To the kilted Harley Davidson fanatics, I'm one too...love'em, how do you like your Japanese motorcycle? Made in Japan, about 90% of the parts, and assembled in America. Even the engines use workings made overseas.

Mike

[motorman4life]

Has anyone here seen the "BIG BOX MART" parody at www.jibjab.com ???

Try this link: http://www.jibjab.com/Movies/Home.aspx

[Raphael]

Although I have yet to have a kilt that was made in Scotland, but If I was to walk into a kilt shop in Scotland and order one, I will have no problem paying the price that ask For. I am paying for a genuine Kilt made by the people of Scotland. I am sure most of the tailors out there were trained from a very young age or at least went to school to learn the art in kilt making.

As Kilt makers, they are probably aimed to make the best kilt they could, because two things are on the line: the pride as kilt makers and also the national pride. To them, they are not making a simple clothing, but a piece of garment that symbolise thier country and their culture. They are also sewing a piece of Scotltish pride in them. They want the world to know that a Genuine Scottish kilt is second to none.

I am not going to trash the Pakistanni kilts. They have their place. But, the Parkistannis sew kilts up to make a living. They woulld careless about their nationalistic pride because they can probably get another job in another facotry making pleated skirt for NIKE or Tommy Hifilger.

This past Summer, I had a chance of seeing the kilts that Hamish brought over to Vancouver. Man, I was impressed. Since the Summer, I vowed to get me a TFCK Kilt in the future. THe pleatings were superb and the swing was just lovely. Obviously, the kilts were made by people with extensive experience in making them.

[Blu (Ontario)]

... I have to disagree with the thought that people buy what they can afford. Not true, if it were family sedans wouldn't have passed the 30K mark and the credit card industry would not be blooming....

What's $500, anyway? A seasoned cigarette smoker can easily spend $1000 to $1500 a year on tobacco. Booze, prepared foods, restaurant meals, ... expensive and quite optional. It's a matter of priority. If you want something badly enough, you'll find a way to make it happen.

[GlassMan]

Speaking of spending priorities, we had "Stewardship Sunday" a few weeks ago where the Chair of the Stewardship Committee gave a speech about how important it is to make an annual pledge to the church and to actually give real cash.

During his speech he said (and I'm doing my best to quote from memory):

There was a time when my wife and I spent more on vacations than we did on tithing to our Church. There was a time when my wife spent more on new clothes than we gave to the Church. There was a time when my wife and I spent more on alcohol than we gave to the church.

Long pregnant pause as he starred at the ceiling.

I really miss that time in our lives!

The entire congregation was in stitches. :grin:

[Jimmy Carbomb]

...and I would rather patronize an old firm whose name does so to ensure that their craftsmanship is around for a while.

An extremely important and valid point that often gets lost in the search for a low price. You can imitate the look, but you can't imitate the quality. Only time will expose the products that are inferior in manufacturing skill and base materials. It doesn't take long sometimes.