Alternative to a PC Jacket

[davedove]

I like the military mess dress jackets, but I plan to get a Brian Boru jacket for formal wear. It has similar styling, but comes in black, instead of just blue and white like the military jackets. Now, if I ever decide to get a white jacket for tropical evening wear (you know, cruises and such) then I may look at the white mess jacket.

Oh my, so many things on the wish list!

[Mike n NC]

Just a quick word to my prior military brothers. Don't forget that having once served, unlike our civilian brothers, to wear a current military uniform, or any part thereof, of the U.S. we must conform to grooming regulations. Not a big thing for most but living near a very large Marine Corps base I must mind my p's and q's.

Mike

[davedove]

Just a quick word to my prior military brothers. Don't forget that having once served, unlike our civilian brothers, to wear a current military uniform, or any part thereof, of the U.S. we must conform to grooming regulations. Not a big thing for most but living near a very large Marine Corps base I must mind my p's and q's.

Mike

I'm sure you do have a problem with that next to a Marine Corps base. All of the services are touchy about this.

The trick is to turn the garment civilian by stripping (or not adding if it's new) it of ALL military decorations, including such things as stripes down the leg and all that. Of course, some items will still be recognizable as military clothes. I don't know how one could make the Marine dress blue jacket look civilian!

I think the mess dress jackets would be okay as long as you keep them strictly civilian. No braids on the shoulders, no sleeve decoration, etc. Then it would simply be a "military styled" jacket. Of course, there are still the little eagles on the buttons.:confused: And of course there will ALWAYS be someone who will recognize it.

These are the primary things to consider (from AR 670-1 3 February 2005):

1–12. Distinctive uniforms and uniform items

a.

The following uniform items are distinctive and will not be sold to or worn by unauthorized personnel:

(1) All Army headgear, when worn with insignia.

(2) Badges and tabs (identification, marksmanship, combat, and special skill).

(3) Uniform buttons (U.S. Army or Corps of Engineers).

(4) Decorations, service medals, service and training ribbons, and other awards and their appurtenances.

(5) Insignia of any design or color that the Army has adopted.

b.

Individuals will remove all distinctive items before disposing of unserviceable uniform items.

[Alan H]

I *JUST* bought and brand-new, unused one of these off of ebay for a fantastic price. I hear that it's home, and i"m leaving shortly, weill get to try it on!

*HUZZAH*

[Iolaus]

In case anyone's interested ...


http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-ROYAL-NA...QQcmdZViewItem

Current bid - GBP 4.99, with 2½ days left.

Long sleeved Royal Navy cropped & fitted evening jacket, extremely well made & manufactured out of a very high quality 100% wool fabric, lined with a black satinised cotton. Mens size medium fitting a 41" chest very well, measuring 22" or 560mm from pit to pit, with a pit to cuff length of 18" or 460mm & a collar to waist measurement of 23"or 580mm long.

[Alan]

For the most part these dinner dress jackets are not worn or purchased very often except by the people on embasy duty. The only way that I found out about them is by searching the Navy uniform web site for a different uniform. I just stumbled across it.

[Luke MacGillie]

Just a quick word to my prior military brothers. Don't forget that having once served, unlike our civilian brothers, to wear a current military uniform, or any part thereof, of the U.S. we must conform to grooming regulations. Not a big thing for most but living near a very large Marine Corps base I must mind my p's and q's.

Mike

Last time I checked 670-1 I did not see any grooming regulations for wear of the uniform by retired or wartime service former soldiers. Ive seen plenty of retired folks wearing dress uniforms with pigtails, beards and even earrings and nothing was said to them.

[Riverkilt]

Ive seen plenty of retired folks wearing dress uniforms with pigtails, beards and even earrings and nothing was said to them.


That would be me :-D ....okay, no ear rings....

Ron

[Sir Robert]

Well on the uniform issue, all currently serving Military and Veterans are by law "authorized" so "Unauthorized" would be everybody else. To skirt this issue, just remove the patches and buttons and replace them with square/diamond shaped buttons. That easy.

I have problems with that myself as I hold different ranks in different services at the same time so if I am attending an event as a representitive of the Regular U.S. Army, I wear a perfectly regulation uniform. If I am attending an event as a Veteran, I can by US Federal Law, wear either that or the uniform that I wore during "The War." The biggist differances are the rank and the buttons. So there are things on my "Retired" uniform that are not on my curent "Federal" uniform like "State" buttons and state ribbons from Desert Storm. So any problem, from nitpickers, with wearing a non-regulation uniform, I point to the buttons and say "not a federal uniform." It is the buttons more than anything else, that defines what is, or is not, a uniform.

The problem is for us Scots is that uniforms and Scottish civil clothing have been, since proscription, swapping fashon tips and symbolism back and forth to the point that the line blurs.

[Mike n NC]

Ya got me to wondering so I looked. This is what I have to deal with daily in this area and don't for a minute think someone won't notice or say something. Common to both services is that no uniform item with insignia and devices (includes buttons) intact is to be worn by civillians.

From the PERMANENT MARINE CORPS UNIFORM BOARD (PMCUB):

Anyone who wears the Marine Corps Uniform must abide by the Marine Corps Grooming standards (paragraph 1004 and 8000.2 of the Uniform Regulations). Active duty/Reservists/Retirees and former Marines must also abide by the height and weight standards (paragraph 8000.2 of the Uniform Regulations).

And for the Navy: NAVPERS 156651

61002. UNIFORMS FOR RETIRED PERSONNEL

1. GENERAL. Retired officers and enlisted personnel, who are not on active duty, may wear the uniform, insignia, and qualifications corre*sponding to the rank or rating indicated on the retired list.

then skipping down to avoid the bs (it takes the Navy 3 times the words to say the same thing)


5. GROOMING STANDARDS. Retired personnel must comply with the grooming standards in these regulations, but uniforms and equipment may either be those prescribed here or those authorized at the time of their retirement.

I would go so far as to hazard a guess that the Army and Air Force have like regulations.

Yeah I know its done otherwise and I figure it is up to the individual. I've only said something to a guy once. I saw a young Marine wearing "The Hat" with device intact and took him under my wing. On occasion I wear my "Hat" with the device and chinstrap buttons removed.
As some others have said; removing the military markings make it a non uniform item. This is especially true of the buttons, they must be changed out for civillian style.

Would I wear my uniform now? With hair past my shoulders, no. Guess it is a pride thing. However I do think a modified mess dress jacket would look sharp with a kilt!

snipe481 ya need to visit a Marine Corps base. These guys are crazy over formal mess events.

Mike