Grinchy remark sends kids home in tears

[Iolaus]

The bigger issue here is not religion or religious freedom. The issue is about parenting...

Thankyou GlassMan, I couldn't have expressed it better.

[bikercelt1]

If the teacher found it against her beliefs to teach fairy stories and lies to children, then why should she not have that freedom?
Teachers are supposed to teach what is true, so if the poor little kids have been brought up on a diet of untruths, they are set up for dissappointment.

So they replace Christ with santa and elves and get upset when someone won't go along with it.

The problem as I see it is that the teacher should not be given the latitude to teach six and seven year-olds that their parents have "lied" to them and she is going to impart the "truth" of Santa Claus. Santa Claus is an Ideal that we have anthropomorhised into a lovable character so that we can express to our children certain values. Who is this woman, or anyone, who says that the character of Santa Claus isn't physically real so therefore she is justified in calling those of us who believe in the concept liars? There are many characters that we use to teach our children good and valuable lessons, Santa is just one of them. I don't hear about "teachers" like this who tell children that the "boogie man" isn't real and therefore they should feel free to wander around after dark on thier own. This is a case of a sanctimonius woman imposing her own reality on children against the wishes of their parents. In my opinion she was out of line and should not be teaching children of this age.

Jamie

[NewKilt]

Message from God to Theresa Farrisi.

My dear Thresa,

Please lighten up a little bit. After all, they are just children. So, let them be children. Santa is in the hearts of everyone I created - even you. Have you forgotten?


Darrell

[bubba]

Sorry Bubba. That teacher just got my goat. .

I wasn't picking on Christians, really, I wasn't and I wasn't insulted. I usede Mithra in a bit of a sarcastice way. In my opinion that womans action was reprehensible and trying to use Christian beliefs as an excuse was immoral as hell. My belief is if it harms no one it's moral. In her case she harmed a classroom full of young children deliberately by destroying the joy they held in the season and should never be allowed to teach in that age bracket again. I see people like her as evil and part of the reason for the constant strife in this world.

[Southern Breeze]

I wasn't planning on commenting on this. The teacher was way out of line. Period.

[GlassMan]

Okay, I just read the teachers letter in the paper, and I guess I was wrong. It is about parenting and also about an uptight, overly-zealous, grumpy, nasty, mean old women intent on pushing her personal beliefs on everyone around her.

It reminds me of my sophomore year in high school. In my English class near the end of the first semester we were all supposed to do an independent research project and then give a persuasive oral presentation on the topic to the class. The goal was to teach us that we write one way when we are preparing a written presentation but in a different manner when we are engaging in oratory. (In an aside, I wish that more children had the good fortune of being blessed with extremely competent teachers who go far beyond the minimum requirements!)

Anyway, one of my classmates decided that she would do her presentation on why it was impossible for Christ to have been born on Christmas. She brought up how it was originally a Pagan festival for Mithras, and how the winter solstice festival was also common among many other European societies. Then she tried to claim that because Isreal is at the same latitude as DC that it would have been cold and snowy at the time so there would be no shepherds out with their flocks (remember, we were in South Texas where the far side of the planet Mercury is considered cooler than our own climate). And of course, she then went on to attack the nature of the modern Christmas celebrations and ended it with a statement of her religious beliefs that there was no Christ, was no Christmas, and that we were all damned for not being true believers in the One True God. (I omit her religion but I think you can figure it out).

Our instructor told her that her topic was innapropriate since our assignment specifically told us to stay away from topics that were too controversial, and that she had also failed to do proper research. For example, because of the Mediteranean and the North Atlantic Current, European and Middle Eastern lattitudes are much warmer than their North American counterparts. I.E. It never snows in Isreal unless an industrial snow maker is employed.

But she felt that it was her mission to convert the Christians, Jews & everyone else. She defiantly stated that it was her faith that was important and that she didn't care what grade she recieved.

People like that will never be reasonable or pay attention to the needs of others.

Oh wait a second, I just realized, it all does go back to parenting. If either my classmate's or that teacher's parents hadn't been narrow-minded fools with poor parenting skills they would have raised such thoughtless children.

[Graham]

I actually tried phoning the lady concerned, I still bet the real story is somewhat different. I just don't trust the media!

Sadly she has a private number.

Re. parenting, I agree with parents rights to teach their own children as they see fit. This is a God given right and I wouldn't want to interfere even if i dissagreed with parents.

But teachers have to teach and many times it conflicts with the teaching of the home.
The big issue of Creationism vs Evolution is a classic example of this.
Do kids go home crying and say 'Mummy, you lied to me, God is dead, we came from monkeys!!" ? If so, do teachers care? They teach what they think is right, whether it is or not.

I don't mean to open a controversial issue and I won't debate it here, I'm just making a comparison.

and listen, I don't take any comments here as an attack on Christianity, I'm certainly not offended, we're just considering comments by the media about a teacher and whether they are justified or not.

I'm not even defending "Christmas" (the Christian version or otherwise) since I celebrate neither.

I'm quite prepared to admit that if I had actually been there, I might have considered Theresa's comments out of place also.

[GlassMan]

I don't think you meant to offend anyone Graham. But it's not just about teaching things that some people find offensive but it's about teaching things in an age-appropriate way.

If a kid in a high school biology class (which is where evolution is introduced) goes home upset because they found out they descended from monkeys and starts crying, then there is something seriously wrong with that kid. A teenager should be able to handle an idea that contradicts their long-held beliefs in a much more adult manner.

Also, because of the stident effort to keep every mention of God (both for and against) out of US schools, no child would ever hear that God is dead in a classroom. I grew up in South Texas where the population is overwhelmingly Christian and everyone goes to Church. San Antonio is so Catholic that the morning after the election it's traditional for the Mayor-Elect to have breakfast with the ArchBishop to discuss priorities for his term of office, even if the Mayor-Elect isn't Catholic. And if you weren't Catholic then you were Southern Baptist or a stricter Fundamentalist.

Yet, even in that climate with teachers that I also saw at Church, evolution was always taught without any mention of God. It was always presented as the prevailing and overwhelmingly accepted scientific explanation for how life came to its present form and diversity on Earth. In private discussions with my teacher I know that she felt that God guided the process in a variation on the now "cool" Intelligent Design theory, but she never even considered injecting that into class. It wasn't her place to talk about that, it was my parent's place.

Now, once in College I did take severa classes over at the Divinity School (and later spent time in a seminary) and we did discuss things more in depth. But each discussion was at the appropriate level for our age and for our intellectual development.

[macwilkin]

This thread is very close to the "line of demarcation" in regards to threads of a religious nature...I'm not going to shut it down yet as long as the discussion continues to be civil and respectful of different POVs, but please see the Forum Rules regarding "religious threads". It is ultimately Hank's call, though, since this is his "house".

Regards,

Todd

[Graham]

No problem Todd, and agreed. As I said, and no disrespect to Glassman, the evolution thing was just a comparison, I did say I will not debate it here.

I see the topic as education and parenting even tho' Xmas is regarded as a "christian issue"