Kilts & Pipe Smoking

[Riverkilt]

I agree with Graham.

Its so sad for me to see so many addicted to corporate tobacco. And sad that one is/was me.

Pipes were part of the mix for me...cigs, cigars, pipes...always as some sort of connoisseur of tobaccos. I managed to quit after years of trying back in 1974.

Addiction is a disease that tells us we don't have a disease.

Today there are healthier ways of getting a tobacco fix (losenges, gum, patches, inhalers, etc) than through smoke. The problem isn't as much the nicotine as the delivery system.

I watched my father and his three sibs die from tobacco use. I watched the most spiritual man I've ever known die of lung cancer 8 years after he quit smoking.

I've assisted at more autopsies than I could count and seen first hand the effects of smoke on lungs.

I sat with my father while he died of suffocation from years of smoking.

I've taught smoking cessation classes for the American Cancer Society.

I watch pregnant women continue to smoke because they "can't quit" even when they know their new born baby will have to quit as soon as he/she's born.

Anytime I see a fellow nicotine addict who is still getting their nicotine fix via smoke I am saddened because it means death.

Is there anything sadder than a stove up old smoker...even smoking a pipe?

And saddest of all...smoking - even if the smoke is sucked through the finest, most expensive, most beautiful, pipe in the world is gonna shorten most people's life span - and if they're a kilt wearer - cut down on the number of years they have to wear a fine kilt.

I'm no zealot. I began smoking my parents butts at age 6 and was picking up butts out of the gutter to smoke by age 10, then stealing packs as a teen. I scored a pipe somewhere, probably from my grandfather's extensive collection, and would break up the cig butts to make tobacco for the pipe. I lived in tobacco country for many years. I know both sides of the controversy.

Today, I can no longer argue with the painful deaths of loved ones due to their tobacco use. I can't deny what I've seen when bodies of smokers were opened up by coroners. My beliefs are hard won from what I've seen and the loss of dear ones.

I am saddened that friends are still prisoner of their nicotine addiction and corporate sales/advertising staffs that glorify such a painful way of death.

And, sadly, in my work as a chemical dependency counselor I see the same glorification of crack pipes, and methamphetamine pipes, and marijuana pipes and bongs among those addicts. Paraphernalia is part of the addition.

Ron

[Muddy]

What is amusing to me in a thread like this is how some folks will
jump in with anti-smoking messages and yet cheerfully participate
in threads about scotch for instance. Moderation in anything is the
key. Too much scotch will destroy your liver yet Graham loves his
single malt (as do I)..............too many fatty hamburgers, too much
coffee too much alcohol too much anything is bad for you. Why not let
those adults who choose to parcipate in a discussion of their enjoyment
of pipes and cigars just be? I thought the hosts passed a rule a bit ago
about not chiming in on a thread if you only wanted to disagree or detract
from it? We are most definately NOT discussing here how great cigarettes
are or anything. That's a whole different animal. We're are speaking of the
enjoyment, in a non-addictive way of the taste of fine tobacco as used in
cigars and pipes in just the same way as some detractors have enthusiastically advocated the occasional dram of fine scotch whisky.
Anyone else notice the evident hypocrisy here?

[Riverkilt]

Hmmm, good point.

I was always taught, and have learned from experience over years in the addictions field, that nicotine is the most addictive drug there is.

For the record, here in the United States, nicotine kills about 500,000 a year, alcohol kills about 100,000 a year, and street drugs kill about 20,000 a year.

No, street drugs aren't safer, just fewer people use them.

If them terrorist guys would just leave us alone we'd do a pretty good job of wasting ourselves without them having to put forth so much effort.

I tell my Navajo clients that the Whites brought Native Peoples booze. Native Peoples brought Whites tobacco. If they'd just quit drinking and let nicotine kill us they'd eventually get their land back.

I'm a drunk too. Have nothing against those who can drink "socially" but spend way too much time with the insanity that too much booze creates in many lives. Seeing tobacco treated as harmless is really a tough one for me.

Yup, I be triggered by stuff that presents lethal addictive chemicals as harmless. Sorry.

It don't really matter. Nothing any of us says will change anyone else's behaviors.

Ron

[Avonlea22]

What is amusing to me in a thread like this is how some folks will
jump in with anti-smoking messages and yet cheerfully participate
in threads about scotch for instance. Moderation in anything is the
key. Too much scotch will destroy your liver yet Graham loves his
single malt (as do I)..............too many fatty hamburgers, too much
coffee too much alcohol too much anything is bad for you. Why not let
those adults who choose to parcipate in a discussion of their enjoyment
of pipes and cigars just be? I thought the hosts passed a rule a bit ago
about not chiming in on a thread if you only wanted to disagree or detract
from it? We are most definately NOT discussing here how great cigarettes
are or anything. That's a whole different animal. We're are speaking of the
enjoyment, in a non-addictive way of the taste of fine tobacco as used in
cigars and pipes in just the same way as some detractors have enthusiastically advocated the occasional dram of fine scotch whisky.
Anyone else notice the evident hypocrisy here?

Veryw ell said, and I agree.

[GlassMan]

What is amusing to me in a thread like this is how some folks will
jump in with anti-smoking messages and yet cheerfully participate
in threads about scotch for instance. Moderation in anything is the
key. Too much scotch will destroy your liver yet Graham loves his
single malt (as do I)..............too many fatty hamburgers, too much
coffee too much alcohol too much anything is bad for you. Why not let
those adults who choose to parcipate in a discussion of their enjoyment
of pipes and cigars just be? I thought the hosts passed a rule a bit ago
about not chiming in on a thread if you only wanted to disagree or detract
from it? We are most definately NOT discussing here how great cigarettes
are or anything. That's a whole different animal. We're are speaking of the
enjoyment, in a non-addictive way of the taste of fine tobacco as used in
cigars and pipes in just the same way as some detractors have enthusiastically advocated the occasional dram of fine scotch whisky.
Anyone else notice the evident hypocrisy here?

Despite my desire not to offend anyone, I have to agree with Muddy on this. I do find it interesting too, but I will shy away from calling it hypocrisy but mainly because I don't like calling names.

I feel it boils down to personal choice as long as it is done in moderation. And these days it seems almost everything is bad for you. I'll give you an example. I grew up in South Texas and one of my favorite dishes was and is fajitas. For those unfamiliar with the dish, it is flank steak that is cooked very quickly over an open flame at extremely high temperatures, then sliced and served still dripping juices. Well, when I was in college some scientist over at NIH did a study on the chemical changes in meats during cooking and found that rapid, high temperature cooking (such as that used for fajitas and other dishes) causes a chemical change in the meat so that the juices are actually more carcinogenic and toxic than Benzene! Benzene is even more cancer causing than cigarette smoke if ingested.

Their conclusion, the lower the temperature used and the slower the cooking the less changes occur in red meat and the safer it is to eat. But then at the same time, if you cook it at too low a temperature you run the risk of not killing off the bacteria and getting food poisoning.

Have I stopped eating fajitas entirely? No. But do I eat them often? No. So do I worry about the possibility of an increased rate of stomach and intestinal cancer caused by their consumption? No.

I've made the personal choice to game the risks and choose my own poison, be it Scotch, Pipes or Fajitas. All in moderation, hope for the best, and at least enjoy life while it lasts.

[Avonlea22]

You can get some very good quality pipes in the $50 to $70 range without an issue. I would suggest for a good deal to visit www.paylesspipes.com out of New Orleans. The guys there have great prices and excellent customer service.

Wow! I was thinking along the lines of $10.00 or so, just to give it a try. The wife isn't too keen on the idea, so I know she wouldn't approve of something that "expensive". I like the corncob pipe suggestion, and that's probably the route I'll take for now.

[GlassMan]

Wow! I was thinking along the lines of $10.00 or so, just to give it a try. The wife isn't too keen on the idea, so I know she wouldn't approve of something that "expensive". I like the corncob pipe suggestion, and that's probably the route I'll take for now.

Yeah, if you're thinking in that price range then a corncob is a great option. Even though I have pipes that cost over $1000, I still sometimes smoke a corncob. They provide excellent value and are also a good smoke.

[Moosehead]

Ron,

a little clarification on booze here pre-Euros. Many native cultures, in fact, used many different types of fermented beverages. They were, however, used almost exclusively for ceremonial purposes. It wasn't until booze started to be used for trade that the excrement hit the rotary air-conditioning unit.

My own Huron ancestors favourite meal was fresh-picked corn, left to "age" in swamp-water for a month or three.

re. tobacco and cancer, can't figure out why there was no lung cancer here until relatively recently (coupla hundred years or so) amongst the native population...all the friggin' additives, mayhaps!?

[GlassMan]

Ron,

a little clarification on booze here pre-Euros. Many native cultures, in fact, used many different types of fermented beverages. They were, however, used almost exclusively for ceremonial purposes. It wasn't until booze started to be used for trade that the excrement hit the rotary air-conditioning unit.

My own Huron ancestors favourite meal was fresh-picked corn, left to "age" in swamp-water for a month or three.

re. tobacco and cancer, can't figure out why there was no lung cancer here until relatively recently (coupla hundred years or so) amongst the native population...all the friggin' additives, mayhaps!?

Not wanting to get the anti-smokers in a major huff, but if you look at the list of carcinogens identified in cigarette smoke, something like 99% of them come from the manufacturing process used for cigarettes (see my earlier post on reconstituted sheet tobacco), from the paper or from the filters!

Might explain the lack of a statistical difference in lung cancer rates between non-smokers and pipe smokers found by the Surgeon General.

[Moosehead]

Personally, I've smoked pipes and cigarettes(trying to kick that habit now!).

I also grow "old" tobacco ie. Rustica. The seeds have been passed down, so far, through at least 11 generations. Strong, strong stuff and not something that can be smoked regularly. Enough nicotine to drop a moose...or Moosehead.