Attitudes To The Kilt.

[MacHanson]

I could choose to wear a Cameron or MacDougal tartan but won't, simply because I like the one I have. I could also carry a large sword as the Black Taylor did but I don't.
I will however respect and honour the heritage of the Camerons and their descendants and wear my kilt with pride. I will also wear my other kilts with pride and revel in the looks I get from the public – "that guy's wearing a kilt !"

and...

Not all of us see this as a fashion revolution or a cause. I wear my kilts because they represent my heritage and I enjoy them. I am not trying to convert people to my beliefs in the hopes of seeing every man kilted. If that were to happen, I would go back to pants only ……… Now I have not changed my last name to Mackenzie or one of its Sept yet I have been welcomed into the clan society. I think we have to remember that these ‘rules’ on the website are not set in stone, but where instead written by a person. Who knows these may be quite old and out dated. So instead of attacking a clan society that none of you know about, and have likely not researched or contacted about the issues brought up in this thread, let's let the man defend his clan and welcome him to the board.

Cheers CameronTaylor and Colin!

The Clan Mackenzie has eight tartans to choose from plus a lost pre-18th century tartan that was more of a Kintail district tartan which was similar to those now worn by the MacRae’s and Ross’s.

Of course the Clan Society is keen to boast of Scottish heritage and the honour amongst Clans, and most people appreciate this – long may it continue. But at the end of the day you can wear whatever tartan you like. Looking at my own ancestors I suppose I could also wear the MacLeod of Lews, MacGregor, MacDonald, Chisholm, Innes, MacRae, Ross, Stewart of Atholl and Davidson tartans, totally against the “Rules” of course!!! ;) I suppose it would be a bit like supporting 10 different football teams. Make sure you’re a fast runner if you’re a MacDonald and get caught wearing a Campbell tartan!!!

[Raphael]

I suppose it would be a bit like supporting 10 different football teams. Make sure you’re a fast runner if you’re a MacDonald and get caught wearing a Campbell tartan!!! [/font][/color]

That's why you will NEVER see me wear anything but a Manchester United Shirt.... and no way in hell I will get caught in one of those Gooner Shirts....

and Lastly, thank you for all the excellent posts.

[CameronTaylor]

Arsenal, Arsenal, Arsenal.


CT - rode into Van wearing a "gooner" top .... :-)

[Iolaus]

A pattern only has meaning to those who give it meaning. I will choose the tartans I wear by what I feel I will be comfortable wearing - not by the association, but by what I feel will look good. If I choose a tartan for its importance to me, I will state that fact if asked about what I am wearing, but I will not allow "meaning" or association to limit what I wear.

Otherwise, the kilt remains a national "costume", and not a garment suitable for all men regardless of heritage.






Alright, I'm feeling contrary tonight, I'm going to go to sleep now, before I get in trouble. ;-)

[macwilkin]

A pattern only has meaning to those who give it meaning. I will choose the tartans I wear by what I feel I will be comfortable wearing - not by the association, but by what I feel will look good. If I choose a tartan for its importance to me, I will state that fact if asked about what I am wearing, but I will not allow "meaning" or association to limit what I wear.

Otherwise, the kilt remains a national "costume", and not a garment suitable for all men regardless of heritage.

Alright, I'm feeling contrary tonight, I'm going to go to sleep now, before I get in trouble. ;-)

I have no problem with you feeling this way, just as long as you respect those of us who do choose to wear tartans because of their meaning or association, and do not degrade those of us who are "traditionalists" who see nothing wrong with the kilt being a symbol of our heritage.

Regards,

Todd

[Robin]

I'm reading this with interest.

When I visited Scotland for the first time in 1978 (I was 18 years old) I went to a kiltshop and asked if it was possible for me to wear a kilt. They didn't release the hounds, but the answer was "NO!".

28 years passed before I decided to ignore that "NO!"

Needles to say...I respect heritage and tradition....I still see a clan tartan as a coat of arms, but that's personal. I'm not judging those who wear whatever tartan they like.

I recently discovered I've Scottish(?) ancestors...a Laurie. I contacted the MacLaren clan society and got permission to wear their tartan...so that will be the only clan tartan I'll wear. Maybe silly, maybe even stupid, but that's for me the right thing to do...or not to do. The MacLaren link is very faint and not watertight, but it's something.

Many "free for all" tartans also, so I won't have problems finding more :grin:

[macwilkin]

I'm reading this with interest.

When I visited Scotland for the first time in 1978 (I was 18 years old) I went to a kiltshop and asked if it was possible for me to wear a kilt. They didn't release the hounds, but the answer was "NO!".

28 years passed before I decided to ignore that "NO!"

Needles to say...I respect heritage and tradition....I still see a clan tartan as a coat of arms, but that's personal. I'm not judging those who wear whatever tartan they like.

I recently discovered I've Scottish(?) ancestors...a Laurie. I contacted the MacLaren clan society and got permission to wear their tartan...so that will be the only clan tartan I'll wear. Maybe silly, maybe even stupid, but that's for me the right thing to do...or not to do. The MacLaren link is very faint and not watertight, but it's something.

Many "free for all" tartans also, so I won't have problems finding more :grin:

Robin -- a slightly off-topic post here -- but I should point out that tartans and coat-of-arms are not quite the same thing. In Scotland, a coat-of-arms belongs to an individual, who is granted the arms from the Lyon Court. No one else may display those arms except the armiger. Whilst tartans are sometimes "recorded" with the Lord Lyon's office, the Lyon Court has no real jurisdiction per se over tartans.

Cheers,

Todd

[pdcorlis]

From the Court of Lord Lyon's website:

"Who is a member of a Clan?

Every person who has the same surname as the chief is deemed to be a member of the clan. Equally a person who offers allegiance to the chief is recognised as a member of the clan unless the chief decides that he will not accept that person's allegiance.

There is no official list of recognised septs. This is a matter for each chief to determine. But where a particular sept has traditionally been associated with a particular clan it would not be appropriate for that name to be treated by another clan chief as one of its septs."

and

"Tartans

There are no strict rules on who has the right to wear a particular tartan. People normally wear only the tartan (if any) of their surname, or a "district tartan" connected with where they live or where their family come from.

Wearing a particular clan tartan indicates that the wearer bears an allegiance to the chief of that clan. A tartan which uses the name of a clan may only do so if the chief of that clan has given his approval to the particular design.

There is no official register of tartan. Records of designs are maintained by the Scottish Tartans Authority, Fraser House, 25 Commissioner Street, Crieff, Perthshire, PH7 3A Y.

The Lord Lyon has no jurisdiction over tartan but if a clan chief wishes, the Lord Lyon will record details of specific clan tartan in the Lyon Records."

[highlander_Daz]

I wouldnt believe everything you read on the internet.

[macwilkin]

I wouldnt believe everything you read on the internet.

...Except that is straight from the Lord Lyon's web site, Daz.

www.lyon-court.com

Like I tell my students, there are good and bad web sites on the Internet -- that is why one should always verify the information through other sources. But this one is pretty good.

T.