Women and Kilt Wearing

[James]

It might also be necessary to laugh at ourselves!

For all too often the modes of kilted attire to be seen today are not based upon the highlander: but upon the costumes of pipe bands and dancers, oft little girls.

I use the word costume, for the wear of such people is designed for show, and not of necessity for actual day to day, or formal wear.

So we have a situation today where the actual highland garb was largely parodied to enhance the band/dancers etc: and so distanced itself from what was and is the actual wear of a highlander. The joke being that the parody itself is now being imported as the role model for kilt wearing.

Going back a few years, I have no recollection of seeing such things as fly plaids, white socks, ghillie brogues being worn as a the garb of a highlander/kilt wearer, be it at gatherings or formal functions.

James

[Oldpagan]

Why would a woman who is proud of the tradition of the kilt dilute that very tradition by wearing one? I don't appreciate the less than subtle accusations of chauvinism in this thread, by the way.

One would have to have the opinion that they were diluting the tradition, to be doing so. In your opinion (and your well within your rights to have it) the tradition is diluted. In others, and mine it does not dilute but reinforces the tradition.

I do hope that I didn’t come across as even slightly subtle in the chauvinism accusation. I call a spade a spade, and when folks are being sexist or chauvinistic I’ll call them on it.

Oldpagan

[Oldpagan]

We have a sign up on the wall in the booking area for those poor souls that find themselves arrested. Some read it and understand, while others remain clueless.
It Reads:

“Arguing with a police officer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After awhile you realize that the pig likes it.”

This topic has been discussed before, and it’s been more than discussed this time around. Both sides have their opinions on the topic and those on the other side. I am finished “wrestling with this pig”.

Oldpagan

[Jeremiah]

One would have to have the opinion that they were diluting the tradition, to be doing so. In your opinion (and your well within your rights to have it) the tradition is diluted. In others, and mine it does not dilute but reinforces the tradition.

I do hope that I didn’t come across as even slightly subtle in the chauvinism accusation. I call a spade a spade, and when folks are being sexist or chauvinistic I’ll call them on it.

Oldpagan

Fair enough, but someone isn't a chauvinist simply because they draw the line, concerning man's garments no less, in a different place than you. It is a cheap shot intended to shame or alienate those of us who think differently than you. In short, it is ad hominem, and has no place in this discussion.

[Oldpagan]

Fair enough, but someone isn't a chauvinist simply because they draw the line, concerning man's garments no less, in a different place than you. It is a cheap shot intended to shame or alienate those of us who think differently than you. In short, it is ad hominem, and has no place in this discussion.

If we were speaking as men, about other men than it would be a moot point. But when men draw lines and issue edicts concerning women then it is chauvinism plain and simple.

No cheap shots taken, just stating facts. If you feel shame or are feeling alienated then maybe you should be honest with your self about why you hold certain views and beliefs.
Nay, it is not ad hominem but the true root of the issue. If fact I consider it a cheap shot that you accuse me of such rather than debate the issue.

At some point in time a loud pop will be heard and men will in clear daylight begain see that there in not a weaker sex, a woman’s place is where she chooses, that women and men can wear whatever they wish.

Oldpagan

[cavscout]

Men and women are not equal. If they were we would be identical. This discussion is happening on several levels. If you want to say that a woman has the same legal rights as a man, YES. Is she equipped to do all the same tasks as a man, NO. Should women be able to do everything a man should, NO.

This has nothing to do with insecurity or trying to keep a sista' down.

Each gender:
deals with conflict differnetly
has different medical needs
have different strengths and weaknesses (physical, mental and emotional)
etc...

Each gender:
Needs food, air, water, ...
deserves curtousy (respect is a word overused and besides, respect is earned not given or demanded)

The world was designed with men and women to each serve their role and function. To blur the lines between them is a new age, PC, load of "whatever feels good, do it" rubbish.

Sorry if that comes off a bit abbrassive, I mean it in a good way.

[KiltedKnight]

I can see that some here are caught up in the morass of political correctness and have been brainwashed into thinking that you can have it both ways. I for one will only look at a female in a kilt as rediculous and worthy of only scorn provided she is not a dancer or a piper.

I will look at the male beside her that looks the other way as only a henpecked male and not truly a man. I feel joy at the fact that my wife is happy being a woman and does not feel the need to assert her will on what is traditionally a mans arena.

It is my choice as a free man to choose liberty over socialism and my right to not associate with anyone determined to disrespect tradition and my heart felt convictions on the issue of kilt wearing.

If this offends some then so be it. I wear the Kilt not as a costume but with pride in my roots. I respect another man who wears the Kilt because it is a mans garment no matter if they have Celtic blood or not.

I cannot accept that anyone would wear it just to prove that men have no exclusive right to anything. Men draw a line, some males are not not sure of where a line should be drawn.

Chris.

[bubba]

Why would a woman wear a kilt? Probably because of the length. Lots of women don't like a skirt at mid calf or ankle length and, face it, most look like hell in a mini. There IS a practical aspect to all this that seems to be getting lost in the name of "tradition". Women who wear kilt, outside of pipers and dancers, like the deeper pleats in a kilt over the shallower pleats in a kilted skirt.

[Space Moose]

In the hopes that this isn't a flame, I'll querey deeper with logic an reasoning in order to find out more about your position...

I for one will only look at a female in a kilt as rediculous and worthy of only scorn provided she is not a dancer or a piper.

Please explain how this is different from a woman wearing a kilt while not dancing or piping. If one deserves scorn, but the other deserves respect, there should be a significant difference that can be explained. I'd hope that the explanation why piping and dancing is acceptable could not also be used to defend the wearing of a kilt while not piping or dancing (otherwise it wouldn't illuminate the difference, right?).

I will look at the male beside her that looks the other way as only a henpecked male and not truly a man. I feel joy at the fact that my wife is happy being a woman and does not feel the need to assert her will on what is traditionally a mans arena.

How do you feel about a woman's right to vote? That was traditionally a mans arena. And what about these other traditionally male arenas that women have 'asserted their will' on?

Women having rights as persons, and not as property.
Women in sports.
Women wearing pants.
Women having jobs outside the home.
Women in government.

By your reasoning, is it possible to accept any of these 6 other traditionally male arenas that women have asserted themselves on, and still consider ones self a "real man"?

It is my choice as a free man to choose liberty over socialism and my right to not associate with anyone determined to disrespect tradition and my heart felt convictions on the issue of kilt wearing.

I couldn't agree more. But I need to ask. Is there such a thing as a 'free woman'? And if there is, could a free woman chose liberty and have the freedom to do what she chooses, like wear a garment that is traditionally a man's (of course while not piping or dancing)?

Craig

[cavscout]

Tracking with Bubba's post above:

I would not have a problem with that reason IF the female would hold herself accountable to qualify to those who may inquire that she is wearing a mans garment and not a womens kilted skirt. For her to honor the distinction would be a huge demonstration of her respect for the tradition.