Women and Kilt Wearing

[Rigged]

I say the whole kilt thing is really just a matter of semantics anyway. I'd like to know what really makes a peice of pleated wool fabric a man's only garment?

I dunno? What makes a black cocktail dress a woman's only garment?

With so many women who can sew, I don't see any reason why women haven't made practical clothing for themselves, rather than snagging ours. Or is it one of things where it's more fun to eat off someone else's plate?

[bubba]

Rigged, most women today are doing good to sew on a button. Sewing is generally not the common skill it used to be. Most women I've met have no idea how to use a sewing machine. One of the main contributing factors to that is mostly it's cheaper to buy off the rack and on sale than to buy the fabric, not counting the time invested in making a garment.

[Pleater]

Women's clothing in our shops (in the UK) is generally cheap, rather nasty throw away stuff, not meant to last for more than the current season if it even gets that far.

Seams are overlocked at the thinnest possible setting, shaping is minimal to save fabric, fabric is thin, often man made and frequently sets off an alergic reaction in my skin. If not the fabric itself then the thread used to sew the seams will be uncomfortable. To hold the seams they are made very tight, so they stand up from the garment as a hard ridge.

The difference when something is either seam free or well made is not always obvious at first glance, but it is significant in the comfort when wearing the garment.

I make traditional jerseys knitted in the round, and a lot of other things too - one customer wore a jersey inside out for a whole morning until I pointed it out when I met her for lunch. The only difference was that there were little flower patterns on the right side and fine stripes on the other, I'm such a perfectionist.

If people are going to get their knic - to get hot under the collar about the direction of pleats maybe I will use the Kinguisse style of pleating, like the William Muirhead kilt in the Tartan Museum.

That has a centre back box pleat and the pleats are mirror imaged each side. With two identical aprons and a belt to hold them, who is to say that it is or is not male or female according to modern conventions? The kilt dates from 1850.

[UmAnOnion]

Shay, I'd have to agree with you on that. Most fashion seems to be designed by gay men to make all men look like gay men and make most women look like gay men.

Not to go off topic BUT...

Even if said in jest, I STRONGLY DISAGREE with this statement,...

If gay men are designing clothes to make all men look like gay men - the jeans hanging off your butt look, the thugs for life look & the big boxy suits of corporate america would have been long gone. As for the clothes designed for women- lets just look at your friendly neighborhood halter top - just who designed that and who does it appeal to???

the VAST majority of fashion designed today has the STRAIGHT man in mind - the womens fashions are crafted to attract the attention of the STRAIGHT male, to enhance whatever 'attribute' will garner the greatest interest. When it comes to men's fashions there isnt much designing going on as the average STRAIGHT male will just continue to follow the herd and do what he has done for millenia - big boring & boxy. They are so insecure in thier sexuality that they dont dare do anything to cause questioning of that.
Some more adventurous straight males will take a chance and dress with a bit more PERSONAL style or body consciousness in order to get some attention from your average STRAIGHT female.
These more enlightened men who are comfortable in thier sexuality will show a greater interest in what they are wearing and how it looks and feels and the comfort they get from it ...hhhmmm that almost sounds like the reason most of us here are into kilts...

More people are copying the fashions of the gay world because gays tend to be a bit more adventurous in thier fashion choice- by being true to ourselves instead of who society tells us we have to be, you are already bucking the system. so why not do that in choice of garb as well. Some adventurous straights see this and see the sense of freedom & liberty and figure that if they can get away with it, so can I. BTW imitation is the most sincere form of flattery...


I will get off the soapbox here but have to say i am suprised by some of the attitudes displayed here. For a group who are already given grief for going against the tide in our choice of garb, there seems to be a significant amount of intolerance from some in other areas of life.... It is said that you can learn a lot about a person by how they treat others... and this thread has been quite an education.

[Tim Walker]

Looking at this from the opposite direction...

As I understand it, a few men have adopted the Macabi, which was originally designed only for women. The sort of men who wear kilts and post to X Marks. The garment was designed to be useful for outdoor activities.

So the desire for something practical trumps gender boundries.

[Iolaus]

For a group who are already given grief for going against the tide in our choice of garb, there seems to be a significant amount of intolerance from some in other areas of life.... It is said that you can learn a lot about a person by how they treat others... and this thread has been quite an education.

Several years ago, I saw a guy in the store who, at the time, I would have described as "Flaming Metro", and he was wearing what, to me, could only be described as a womans purse. My comments to my wife were less than complimentary of him. Since then, I have taken to wearing kilts, and wearing what functions as a purse strapped around my waist.

If there's one thing wearing kilts in public has taught me, it's to be more tolerant of other people's personal choices. If women want to wear the kilt, more power to them, if men want to wear a skirt, that's their issue, not mine. All I ask is that my decision to wear a kilt be recognized as the wearing of a man's garment, and not to mean that I must be gay or a cross-dresser.

[cloves]

Renee,

Just noticed your signature! I love it! !

KiltedCodeWarrior, Thanks brother, I only wish i could take credit for having invented it.

I dunno? What makes a black cocktail dress a woman's only garment?

You make my point for me. Exactly, what does make a dress a woman's only garment. I'd argue that if a man wanted to wear one, even if I didn't like the way it looked astheticaly, It is his right to do so if he wishes.
Would it make him automatically gay? No. Would it mean he mean wanted to be a woman? No. It doesn't have to mean anything other than the fact that for that moment he wanted to wear that particular article of clothing.
It's not the wearer that has the problem, it's the rest of the world who've already made assumtions about him (or her) that have the problem.

If there's one thing wearing kilts in public has taught me, it's to be more tolerant of other people's personal choices.

I absolutely agree. Once you let go of your own preconceived notions about what stuff means, then it stops being an issue.

Renee

[mudd]

I will get off the soapbox here but have to say i am suprised by some of the attitudes displayed here.

Hey Mr. Onion,
I think most of us agree with everything you said.
I took Mr. Rigged's comment to be targeted at what you usually see at fashion shows, which I don’t think anyone would actually wear on purpose.

[Rigged]

I took Mr. Rigged's comment to be targeted at what you usually see at fashion shows, which I don’t think anyone would actually wear on purpose.

You took me correctly.

All I ask is that my decision to wear a kilt be recognized as the wearing of a man's garment, and not to mean that I must be gay or a cross-dresser.

And how do you achieve that except for fighting tooth-and-nail against any suggestion to the contrary?

[cloves]

And how do you achieve that except for fighting tooth-and-nail against any suggestion to the contrary?

by just being yourself and doing the things you do everyday. Relax and let the issues go.

Remember when men wearing two earings was odd? Or tattoos being just something bikers or people who'd been in jail had?