Sgian dhu II

[djweso]

The problem is that one will get you a real nice jail cell for the night in most states. It is not a sgian dubh and has two full cutting edges which is illegal in most states, I have three like it but they never leave the safe.

Chris.

I had no idea that two edges made a difference. Nick any idea if this is true in Michigan, I know you had talk about the laws here.

I know it is not a traditional sgian dubh but I thought it would cover generally the same functions. I am not a knife guy. I don't know that much about them. But I would like one that when I pull it out I don't have to worry about breaking it (yes I have done this and yes it was a cheap blade). However, I am also fairly price sensitive.

[Mike S]

Nearly every state forbids the public carry of double edged blades, even swag or false edged ones as found on the typical Highland Dirk. The reason being that these types of blades are in reality meant for one thing and one thing only, hand to hand combat (the double edge is designed for deadly efficient thrusting of the weapon).

Highland games etc. aren't usually policed with such scrutiny however, as one typically finds all kinds of weapons that would typically be considered a no no for public display/carry, such as Broadswords, dirks, Lochabers, Claymores, spiked targes etc. Some sympathy must be felt by the police, after all, don't most major police agencies have their own pipebands?

[David Thornton]

I'm not going to let you guys off the hook yet, can a sgian be white?

http://cgi.ebay.com/DAGGER-DAMASCUS-...ayphotohosting

[Mike S]

I'm not going to let you guys off the hook yet, can a sgian be white?

http://cgi.ebay.com/DAGGER-DAMASCUS-...ayphotohosting

That is what is known as a "coffin handle" boot knife. It has a nifty, 19th century style grip and fittings (although the orignal 19C. versions were usually much larger daggar or bowie sized knives) etc. but has two strikes against it if you wanted to use it as a Sgian:

One, the size is just a wee bit too small. Although it is double edged, it's blade is little bigger than what Blackpowder shooters would call a patch knife.

Second, as discussed above, it is indeed a double edged "stabbing" knife unlike most modern Sgian Dhus.

To answer your original question, although it tangles with the term Dhu (so does a stag handled Sgian for that matter, and some debate that the term dhu (or more properly dubh) in this case meant to secret or hide, rather than the color black (same with "Black" Watch), I would have no problems at all wearing an appropriate Sgian with that pattern grip/handle, in fact since I make blades myself you've given me some ideals!

[Caradoc]

Nearly every state forbids the public carry of double edged blades, even swag or false edged ones as found on the typical Highland Dirk. The reason being that these types of blades are in reality meant for one thing and one thing only, hand to hand combat (the double edge is designed for deadly efficient thrusting of the weapon).

Highland games etc. aren't usually policed with such scrutiny however, as one typically finds all kinds of weapons that would typically be considered a no no for public display/carry, such as Broadswords, dirks, Lochabers, Claymores, spiked targes etc. Some sympathy must be felt by the police, after all, don't most major police agencies have their own pipebands?

Arizona doesn't have any of those laws about double edges.

Being pulled over by the local police for a perceived traffic violation (after discussing it with the officer, he agreed that he was wrong, and thanked me very much for it) with a Lochaber axe belted into the passenger seat was quite an experience.

Important note: If you're "dressed funny," keep both hands on the steering wheel if you're pulled over, and do nothing without the officer's say-so. They get very uncomfortable when they can see three weapons, and don't know what they can't see.

I had a dirk, Dalcassian axe, and Lochaber axe in reasonably plain sight (and a sgian ochles not in plain sight) and he was a bit nervous.

"Sir, do you know why I pulled you ov.... what the hell do you have in your passenger seat?"

I've got a sgian dubh, antler-handled, very plain, but perfectly functional. It's in a nice carbon steel (stainless is... icky for functional tools) and is perfectly sized for a two-fingers-on-the-handle, thumb-on-the-jimping grip that gives me good point and edge control for carving wooden camp tools, trap triggers, cutting fishing line, etc.

[Mike S]

Hi Caradoc,
Welcome to the forums by the way. I enjoyed your story, and agree that Arizona is one of the precious few states where the lawmakers haven't lost their minds and trampled all over an individual's constitutional rights.

Too bad it's so damned hot and dry there(I'm a native Texan and have had quite enough of that climate/weather), or I would seriously consider it a viable place of residence for myself.

[Nick]

I had no idea that two edges made a difference. Nick any idea if this is true in Michigan, I know you had talk about the laws here.

Doubled edged knives are illegal to carry in Michigan. You can carry sheath knives, but they have to be visible (i.e. hanging from your belt or sticking out the top of your hose )

There is a bit of ambiguity, of course. There is the matter of "intent":

-750.226... Carrying with unlawful intent
Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully
against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol
or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or
knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any
other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall
be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in
the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine
of not more than 2,500 dollars.

Here is the section covering the matter of "concealed":

- 750.227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk,
stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of
any length, or any dangerous weapon, except a hunting
knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about
his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in
any vehicle... except in his or her dwelling house [or]
place of business... (3) A person who violates this
section is guilty of a felony...

So yes, a sgian's legal to carry in MI, as long as the top of the handle is visible. I'd say a double edged is taking a risk I'd rather not take.

If these excerpts have changed, I can't find any evidence of it. I got these from http://home.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm, and double checked them against other websites. The Michigan state website got rediesigned and I can't find the laws anymore.

[Mike S]

Yes, and Michigan like my home state of Texas and my current residency of Kentucky has a lot of wildlife/outdoorsmen/hunting (there is a lot of "wildlife" in motor city too, but that's another story....).
I shutter to think what the laws are like out California or much of the east coast regarding public carry of edged weapons and the like!

[David Thornton]

OK Mike, with my inspiration and your skill we should be able to come up with something!
Do you want to build your Kentucky cousin (also McDonald) a sgian?
Come on down to Paducah this weekend and we'll plan.
David

[David Thornton]

Take a look at this one, is the blade configuration also incorrect?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rantanen-Custom-...ayphotohosting

I did notice a lot of variation of blade in the modern sgian. And please explain the reference to stag handles as all indication is that early sgians were predominantly stag.

David