Fly Plaid Question!!!????

[Robin]

I think the fly plaid (the dirk also btw) can be worn with a Montrose Doublet or a SherrifMuir Doublet..."white tie" events...Think royalty...Ascot...extremely rare high society stuff only.

Not sure about the Regulation Doublet...it's a white tie outfit and you can wear (miniature) medals on it.

Normal "dress" (Argyll Jacket) and "black tie" (Prince Charlie Jacket) events...no fly plaid, no medals and no dirk. We often see fly plaids worn with PC Jackets, but I guess that's because sellers want to sell us stuff.

It's a bit like the off white hose and the Ghillie Brogues I guess.

Okey...I know...I must run for my life now

[Panache]

I believe the plaid is very formal, like for the Groom at a wedding, and not appropriate for daywear. Personally, I've never seen or heard of one worn with daywear attire.

It's a pity that the fly plaid is apparently an ultra formal accessory because various kilt sources seem to sell them without mentioning that they are for ultra formal attire. So we the first time buyer think "better get one of those to match my kilt". Then we find out OOPS we really shouldn't wear them at all. The real shame of it all is that fly plaids just look so darned good with kilts!

Are fly plaids covered in the X Marks FAQ? It would probably be worth a mention and save some lurkers and newbies (like myself) some $$$.

Cheers

[Robin]

Matt Newsome and/or Hamish will know all the ins and outs for sure...

I understand wearing a fly plaid is pretty normal in the USA, so when you like it...just do what you please

[davedove]

I've got a fly plaid to wear with my formal outfit on my cruise. I figure I'll have everyone talking about the man in the kilt that night.

[macwilkin]

I think the fly plaid (the dirk also btw) can be worn with a Montrose Doublet or a SherrifMuir Doublet..."white tie" events...Think royalty...Ascot...extremely rare high society stuff only.

Not sure about the Regulation Doublet...it's a white tie outfit and you can wear (miniature) medals on it.

Normal "dress" (Argyll Jacket) and "black tie" (Prince Charlie Jacket) events...no fly plaid, no medals and no dirk. We often see fly plaids worn with PC Jackets, but I guess that's because sellers want to sell us stuff.

It's a bit like the off white hose and the Ghillie Brogues I guess.

Okey...I know...I must run for my life now

Robin,

Respectfully have to disagree with you regarding miniature medals and the Prince Charlie. The Prince Charlie is "black tie", and medals and decorations, if requested by the invitation to an event are appropriate.

Cheers,

Todd

[GlassMan]

I know that normally I'm one of those who likes to follow tradition as much as possible, but in this case I have to admit that this is something that I don't quite agree with.

For Argyles & daywear tweeds I have been known to fold a fly plaid and lay it across my shoulder. I find that it is both comfortable yet elegant. Although I do tend to still use a pin of some kind to keep it from falling off. When I wear a plaid this is by far the most common way.

As for evening wear, personally I have no problem with someone wearing a fly plaid with their formal wear in any situation where a tuxedo or better would be appropriate. In America formal events are few and far between so we might as well enjoy the opportunities that present themselves.

And to my eyes, a plaid with a Prince Charlie looks quite nice. I find the Sheriff Muir & Montrose Doublets to be a bit too fanciful for my tastes.

But those comments refer only to the evening plaids (big squares of cloth with fringed edges). I personally would never wear a piper's or drummer's plaid unless I happened to be in a pipe band.

However, as I stated, this is one situation where I diverge from the more traditional "rules" of attire. And let's be honest, there are no tartan police that will issue a citation if you diverge a little from absolute adherence to custom.

[Robin]

Robin,

Respectfully have to disagree with you regarding miniature medals and the Prince Charlie. The Prince Charlie is "black tie", and medals and decorations, if requested by the invitation to an event, such as a Burns Supper, are appropriate.

Cheers,

Todd

You're right, in the USA this is a dress code.

I guess different countries have different rules regarding medals.
Wearing a kilt, the appropriate jacket and outfit does not overrule national dress code.

Vive la difference!

[macwilkin]

You're right, in the USA this is a dress code.

I guess different countries have different rules regarding medals.
Wearing a kilt, the appropriate jacket and outfit does not overrule national dress code.

Vive la difference!

Actually, my source for this comes from a Canadian brochure for the proper wear of medals and decorations. :mrgreen:

Here's what the Royal Canadian Mounted Police has to say about it, for example:

When wearing Mess Kit or black tie, miniature orders, decorations and medals are worn.

-- http://www.rcmp-learning.org/docs/ecdd1272.htm#drress

Cheers,

Todd

[Robin]

Like I said...different countries...different dress codes.

Overhere...black tie...no medals.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

There seems to be a minor point of confusion here. Some fly plaids are made with a built in strap & buckle to fasten at the waist. Some are not.

These are essentially the same item, just made in two different styles. When worn, they will hang a bit differently, but other than that, there is no difference, and it does not really affect the formality of the ensemble at all.

Some people seemed to be treating these as two separate types of plaids, but they are essentially both the same.

As to the appropriateness of wearing the fly plaid, I actually think this is a bit fluid -- in other words, the fashion may be changing -- and depends a lot upon the country you may live in.

Most of the people I talk to from the UK would reserve the plaid for "white tie" affairs, worn with some type of close-fitting doublet, like the Montrose or Sherrifmuir. They would not consider it part of "black tie" attire and would never wear it with the Prince Charlie.

A lot of people I encounter here in the States still consider the fly plaid part of formal affair, but (and this may just be the circles I run in!) don't make the same distinction between "white-tie" and "black-tie" and wear the fly plaid with their Prince Charlie. It certainly does not look bad. And I dare say that most people who wear the fly plaid in the US wear it in this manner.

So I think it really boils down to your personal sense of style and what is generally considered appropriate in your region.

What is generally considered unappropriate everywhere is the use of the fly plaid as part of a casual ensemble. You can literally see anything being worn at many of the Highland Games in America (I once saw someone wearing his Prince Charlie & vest with a t-shirt, for goodness' sake! I saw someone else wearing bedroom slippers with his kilt...). I will occasionally see someone wearing a formal fly plaid with a sweater, or even worse, a t-shirt! It's not uncommon to find people wearing it with a "Jacobite" style shirt.

I think a lot of this is due to neophytes jumping in head first and purchasing a lot of accessories, thinking that since they are all "Scottish" they must all go together, without considering that there are different styles, different levels of formality, and you cannot always mix them.

If one is looking for a more casual form of plaid, the "blanket" style that many have mentioned from Thompson's book (So You're Going to Wear the Kilt) is very traditional. Essentially this is a blanket -- maybe 2 to 4 yards of your tartan, fringed at two ends, folded up and draped over yoru shoulder, like you were carrying a blanker on picnic. Problem with this is that for most of the outdoor festivals in the summer months (when people in the US typically wear their kilts) you don't really want to carry a large woolen blanker around all day.

Another option that I have seen is a modified plaid that is made to resemble the upper portion of a great kilt, but is not so fancy as the fly plaid.

Take one yard of double width tartan (to match your kilt), which would be 36" by 54" (If you are a larger gentleman, you may want more than this, say 1.5 yards, so it would be more like 54" x 54"). Hem the two cut ends (there is no fringe on this style). On one of the selvedge ends, sew a small loop in the center (this can be cloth, bias tape, cord, whatever). On the other selvedge end, put in a draw string.

After you put on your kilt (but before donning your jacket) fasten the plaid at the waist with the drawstring (it is not essential that it come all the way round to the front). Then fasten it with the liitle loop you've sewn on at your shoulder with a simple brooch or pin.

The cloth should drape in such a way that it looks reasonably like the upper portion of the great kilt. I've seen this worn with a tweed Argyle jacket and a plain brooch (not the fancy formal plaid brooch with large gem) and it has actually looked quite nice. The plaid did not look too formal for the outfit in the least.

So if one were looking for a version of the fly plaid to wear for daywear, this is what I would recommend. But I'd still stress that you really need some kind of jacket to pull this off -- wearing the plaid with just a shirt would still look out of place in my opinion.

M