Clan and District tartan history

[GlassMan]

Exactly. And allow me to very plain about something. I am NOT saying that the current accepted clan tartans are the same ones our ancestors wore in the 16th & 17th centuries. 99.9999999999% of those tartans are certainly the invention of the tartan manufacturers in the 19th century. And even those that try to claim a greater antiquity (such as the attempts by some MacKay historians) have a very difficult time providing proof of such.

However, just because we lost the old regional tartan designs during the days of proscription, doesn't mean that they didn't exist. And what did exist was certainly not a tightly regulated system of tartans registered with the authorities and approved by the Chiefs. Instead it was a customary weave that tended to be worn by inhabitants of a region. And those inhabitants also tended to be related simply because in those days most people didn't not stray far from their place of birth. The modern tendency to move away from the parents is just that, a modern tendency.

Just wanting to make sure that we are both talking about the same concepts and not talking at cross purposes. I'll agree that the modern system did not exist. But I do tend to also believe what evidence shows was a different customary system in the past that lapsed during Proscription.

[GlassMan]

Another very cogent argument for a tendency to wear a common tartan (or at least a tartan with common colors if not thread counts) in a given region is botanical.

All weavers depended very much on local plants for their dyes so the locality of the weaver might well have some bearing on the colours of the tartan that he produced.

[Colin]

Interesting discussion guys, however it was veering way off topic. I did think it deserved it's own thread, so plaese feel free to continue here.

[freddie]

As for the story about the laird of Grant ordering his clansmen to wear the same tartan this was at the time when military uniforms were coming into vogue. Normally a nobleman would kit out his soldiers in blue coats or green coats (they were private armies in those days), but in Scotland of course they had the tartan. As has been said before, if a 'clan tartan' existed why would he have to order them to wear it anyway ?

[starbkjrus]

Shameless Bump! More experts want to wade in??

[GlassMan]

As for the story about the laird of Grant ordering his clansmen to wear the same tartan this was at the time when military uniforms were coming into vogue. Normally a nobleman would kit out his soldiers in blue coats or green coats (they were private armies in those days), but in Scotland of course they had the tartan. As has been said before, if a 'clan tartan' existed why would he have to order them to wear it anyway ?

Possibly because his vassals included members of several clans and so he desired consistency?

[macwilkin]

Possibly because his vassals included members of several clans and so he desired consistency?

I think Freddie's comment about military uniforms coming into vogue is correct.

As an aside, there is still a private army in Scotland today, although it is mostly ceremonial: The Atholl Highlanders, raised by the Chief of the Murrays, the Duke of Atholl.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atholl_Highlanders

One of our local Scottish expats used to piper for the Lonach Highlanders:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonach_Highlanders

Cheers,

Todd

[GlassMan]

I think Freddie's comment about military uniforms coming into vogue is correct.

I was actually being facetious, but being rather tipsy at the time I didn't make it come through very well in my post.

[macwilkin]

I was actually being facetious, but being rather tipsy at the time I didn't make it come through very well in my post.

Tipsy, eh, Phil? Single-malt?

I get you now!

Cheers,

Todd