Clan and District tartan history

[GlassMan]

Recent data suggests that schools such as Yale and Harvard suffer from a horrible case of grade inflation... so much so that a B/C at these institutions is the equivalent to a barely passing grade (read D-) at schools with a modicum of academic rigor...

Speaking from personal experience (having attended both) what you say is relatively correct. I did see far more grade inflation at Harvard than at Yale. There was a definite sentiment of entitlement among the Harvard undergraduates, who roundly complained if their work did not receive an A. I would say at Harvard (as a graduate student) if an undergraduate received a B it was really for barely passable work and if an undergraduate received a C it really should have failed. While at Yale a C should really have been a D or D- while a D should have been and F. Yale A's and B's tended to reflect the level of rigor that should be expected for an incredibly challenging university.

I remember one of my history classes incredibly well. It was a history of WW I, WW II and the interwar period taught by Sir Michael Howard. He was an excellent professor and he started off the class by letting everyone know that he did not believe in grade inflation. In fact, in a class of approximately 100 he stated that he would "count the A's upon my right hand." I'm rather proud to say that I received on of the 5 A's and A-'s that he awarded for that semester. I'm also proud to say that I managed A- overall averages at both schools.

Personally, I think the long standing practice of the "Gentleman's C" is horrible. It has been in existence for well over 100 years as a way for scions of wealthy families of below average intellect to still attain a degree from a university intimately connected to their family. I know that those legacies tend to give far more money than those of us who are first-generation members of the alumni pool, but their membership should not be based on pure grade manipulation.

If you ever meet anyone with a degree from an Ivy who managed only a C average or worse then you can pretty much assumed that they should have flunked out of college. Sadly that describes an incredibly number of people with immense amounts of power over our lives. I shall refrain from naming names to avoid this thread taking on a political tone.

Exceptionally high grades over all were still difficult to attain and required the highest level of scholarship at Yale (I remember one paper in which I found myself retranslating several items Papal correspondence with the Third Reich from German & Latin into English to make my point) but those who should have truly failed or been close to failing were protected from that shame with C's and D's. So while the lowest grades are definitely subject to inflation, and there are even too many B's given for work that didn't deserve it, for most students the level of academic rigor is still well above that expected of many other institutions. The actual requirement of a thesis paper simply to achieve an undergraduate degree is something that my high school friends who attended other institutions found astonishing. And the level of detail expected in said senior thesis was of standards not required even by some graduate programs. My work on The Economic and Diplomatic Internactions of the Duchy of Amalfi & the Islamic States of North Africa, Egypt & the Levant between the years 800 & 1181 went into such depth that the University had to request assistance from professors at several other schools because my expertise on the matter had exceeded all but one member of the Yale history faculty.

So while the effort of C & D students at Yale, Harvard and other schools should rightly be derided, please do not then assume that the works of other students must also have been held to a low standard. Instead, the reality is that there are really two systems at work. One grading system covers the intellectually challenged descendents of the elite, and the other covers the academically superb students whose presence was caused by their talent, intelligence and merit.


Okay, enough of this incredibly digression.

[andyfg]

Just want to say thanks to all for an utterly engrossing thread . . .

[beerbecue]

So while the effort of C & D students at Yale, Harvard and other schools should rightly be derided, please do not then assume that the works of other students must also have been held to a low standard. Instead, the reality is that there are really two systems at work. One grading system covers the intellectually challenged descendents of the elite, and the other covers the academically superb students whose presence was caused by their talent, intelligence and merit.

I believe that this occurs at several institutions. The fact is that you can receive an excellent education, and a respectable degree, at locations other than Harvard or Yale - which is the original point I was trying to make.... just not as well as I would have liked...

From my experience with academics in the Midwest and the Southeast, I have found that there are an overabundance of C's, and often too many B's in the University system in general, but I have yet to see that with A's...

While I have never attended an Ivy League school (although I now have had much experience with Cornell), my land-grant alma mater offered an excellent education, and my original comment was in reference to the deprecating comment made by Cajunscot concerning his land-grant alma mater..... Of which we are in agreement as per your post directly following his on this matter......

Whew....

Now, about those district tartans.......

[starbkjrus]

Ok, back on topic guys.....I'm REALLY interested in this topic.....so lets talk more about tartans.....

[freddie]

As for the story about the laird of Grant ordering his clansmen to wear the same tartan this was at the time when military uniforms were coming into vogue. Normally a nobleman would kit out his soldiers in blue coats or green coats (they were private armies in those days), but in Scotland of course they had the tartan. As has been said before, if a 'clan tartan' existed why would he have to order them to wear it anyway ?

[starbkjrus]

Shameless Bump! More experts want to wade in??

[GlassMan]

As for the story about the laird of Grant ordering his clansmen to wear the same tartan this was at the time when military uniforms were coming into vogue. Normally a nobleman would kit out his soldiers in blue coats or green coats (they were private armies in those days), but in Scotland of course they had the tartan. As has been said before, if a 'clan tartan' existed why would he have to order them to wear it anyway ?

Possibly because his vassals included members of several clans and so he desired consistency?

[macwilkin]

Possibly because his vassals included members of several clans and so he desired consistency?

I think Freddie's comment about military uniforms coming into vogue is correct.

As an aside, there is still a private army in Scotland today, although it is mostly ceremonial: The Atholl Highlanders, raised by the Chief of the Murrays, the Duke of Atholl.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atholl_Highlanders

One of our local Scottish expats used to piper for the Lonach Highlanders:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonach_Highlanders

Cheers,

Todd

[GlassMan]

I think Freddie's comment about military uniforms coming into vogue is correct.

I was actually being facetious, but being rather tipsy at the time I didn't make it come through very well in my post.

[macwilkin]

I was actually being facetious, but being rather tipsy at the time I didn't make it come through very well in my post.

Tipsy, eh, Phil? Single-malt?

I get you now!

Cheers,

Todd