4 yard vs 8 yard - Part Two

[Alan H]

I have two four-yard kilts. One is a USA Kilts casual in Ramsay Blue, the other is a Bear Kilt in MacNaughton. Both are ten ounce Polyester Viscose.

The Bear Kilt is the more "constructed" of the two kilts, and I HATE to write this on the forum, but I have to....it's falling apart. I wore it to the Livermore games yesterday and that's it, I'm going to have to wash it and sit down and re-stitch a mess of the kilt back together again. I'm honestly considering ripping all the stitching out and making a sash for my wife out of it, and maybe a tie and a bow tie. I'd buy 3 yards of wool/poly blend, which is available in muted MacNaughton from Marton Mills in 13 ounce and stitch up yet another kilt. My Lady won't wear tartan, so a sash is about as much as I can hope for.

I won't wear a 4-yard kilt to Highland games again. My four-yard kilts have 15-16 pleats, and they don't look right when compared to "real" kilts.

ON the other hand, my USA Kilts casual is holding up very well, and I enjoy it. It's great on a hot day. Still, I find that the difference between four yards and five yards...the extra weight and the 4-5-6 more pleats that you get, makes a HUGE difference in the feel and appearrance of the kilt. My Holyrood 5-yard is a very good-looking kilt. Note that the Stillwaters are supposed to mostly be 6-yards, and they have enough pleats that from the "pleat standpoint" you can't tell them from a 7-8 yarder..

The heavy kilt I made for "practice" turned out to be 7 yards and it's got 26 pleats in it. That's a lot of pleats. I'm not going to make any more kilts with less than 20 pleats in them. At this point in my kiltmaking "career" I'm thinking that 6 yards is about ideal for a kilt here in central California, and make it in 13 ounce. Why? Let's work it out.

For example...my butt measurement is 46. How many pleats will I get out of that?

Well, ignoring the details of calculating "splits", we'll do a rough estimate. Half of that 46 is going to be in apron, and half in pleats, right? One-inch pleats look pretty good, so that means 23-24 pleats around me rump. Perfect. How does that work out with the sett? Again this is a ROUGH ESTIMATE.

Two examples.:

6-inch sett. OK if the sett is 6 inches then I'm going to get approximately 4 setts-worth of tartan appearing around my rump. If I use one-inch reveals on the pleats, then I'm going to have 6 pleats per set, right? That's 24 setts. Nice! 16 isn't enough and 30 or more is just a mess of extra work if you ask me.

If each sett is 6 inches, then 24 setts is 144 inches of cloth that's going to get pleated around me rump. 144 inches is 12 feet, or four yards.

Throw in a yard for the over-apron and a yard for the under-apron and you have yourself a 6 yard kilt. See? The X Marks tartan is essentially a 6-inch sett.

How about for a 4.5 inch sett? (since a number of Fraser and Kirkbright's fabrics have a 4.5 inch sett)

OK if the sett is 4.5 inches then I'm going to get approximately 5 setts-worth of tartan, apearing in pleats around my rump (4.5 x 5 = 22.5, OK throw in an extra pleat or two...details, details). If I use 0.9 inch reveals on the pleats, then I'm going to have 5 pleats per set, right? So that's 25 pleats, which is great.. 25 pleats means 25 setts-worth of tartan is pleated into the stuff that goes around me bottom.

If each sett is 4.5 inches, then 25 setts is 112 inches of cloth that's going to get pleated around me rump. 112 inches is 9.3 feet, or 3 yards and change.

Throw in a yard for the over-apron and a yard for the under-apron and you have yourself a 5+, approaching 6 yard kilt, with enough left over for flashes and a knick-knack or two, maybe a bow tie..

With those numbers in hand, look at your Clan or regional tartan. Measure your bottom. Find out the size of the sett of the fabric you want to get made into your kilt. DON'T get/make a kilt with less that 20 pleats. More than 30 pleats is kind of pointless IMHO. Now do that calculation I just did, up there, for your rump, your tartan and your particular situation. Can you make (have made) a kilt with 22-28 pleats, in your tartan, using 6 yards of cloth? I bet you can. You MIGHT have a really nice kilt with just 5 yards of cloth.

I honestly am starting to think that this "magic number" of eight yards is nothing but publicity. If you have a 34 inch waist and you wrap eight yards of cloth around your backside, and INSIST on 8 yards, then the kiltmaker is going to have to waste cloth in double-deep pleats and stuff and it just doesn't make sense. Think hard about 6-yard kilts.

Just my two cents, expanded up to about eight cents worth of text.

[Panache]

Thanks Alan that was very helpful. I now need to find out how many pleats a 5 yard knife pleated Galbraith would have on a 36" waist (if it's 20+ or not) and then can decide if 5 yards is enough or to go for the full monty...err... kilt.

Cheers

[MacSimoin]

I personally don't have any 4-yard kilts; everything I have is a minimum of 5 yards or more, but I certainly don't feel any of the kilts I own are too light by any means. I think that a kilt's weight is subjective to personal preference (or finance for that matter) anyway. While I don't have my 8-yard Fitzsimmons kilt yet (from Edgar, due in July), I'm really looking forward to getting it since it will be my first 8-yard 'traditional' kilt.

[Pleater]

Thanks Alan that was very helpful. I now need to find out how many pleats a 5 yard knife pleated Galbraith would have on a 36" waist (if it's 20+ or not) and then can decide if 5 yards is enough or to go for the full monty...err... kilt.

Cheers

What is the width of the sett on the Galbraith tartan?

If you have an 8 inch rather than 6 inch sett then there is going to be a considerable difference in the length of fabric required - if there are 24 pleats of one complete set each then you need an extra 2 ft of single width cloth for the small pleats - perhaps another foot or more for the large pleats and then possibly a bit more to get the sett placed evenly on the front apron, in the 8 inch tartan oevr the 6 inch tartan sett

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Some historical perspective.

The very first tailored kilt that has survived for us is a regimental kilt from the Gordon Highlanders circa 1796. It's box pleated to the yellow line and contains exactly 3 yards and 2 inches of cloth.

Right up until the middle part of the nineteenth century, an average kilt had about 4 yards, often less, of material.

Keep in mind, this is when the kilt was the daily dress of the Highland male, not a ceremonial garment worn just to weddings and clan gatherings. Try telling those soldiers, farmers, and shepherds that they were not wearing "real kilts."

You can read more about this issue on my web site:
http://kilts.albanach.org/yardage.html

I wear 4 yard kilts most all of the time, and never have a problem with them being too light. That's because I use heavy weight cloth whenever possible. I think people who have had bad experience with 4 yard kilts have worn kilts made from light weight cloth. I prefer to use 16 oz or heavier weight for a 4 yard kilt, 13 oz at the lightest. I agree that light weight cloth is simply too light for a 4 yard kilt -- but that's not what these Highland men 200 years ago were wearing.

Also, a lot of 4 yard kilts offered by many kiltmakers today are machine made, or even off the peg, and so probably are not fitting as well as the hand tailored 8 yard kilts.

I'd suggest to anyone curious that you have a 4 yard kilt made from 16 oz cloth, hand tailored to your measurements, and I think you'll find it perhaps the most comfortable kilt you own!

M

[way2fractious]

I made a 4-yard box-pleated kilt recently from 16 oz Weathered Ferguson wool, following Barb's book with a few modifications. It is every bit as tailored as a "tank", but is oh so comfortable. I wore it to the Woodland games last month and did not suffer "kilt envy" in the least bit. California valley summers are just too dang hot for 8-yard kilts. Of course, I also have a wide variety of cotton kilts for working, playing and everyday wear.

[MacHummel]

I have always been a fan of the 8yrd kilt but when it comes to doing festivals and hanging out and doing other activites I like my 5yrd kilts they are great for just doing whatever and are light enough for those hot summers days coming up this goes the same for my canvas kilts.

[Panache]

What is the width of the sett on the Galbraith tartan?

If you have an 8 inch rather than 6 inch sett then there is going to be a considerable difference in the length of fabric required - if there are 24 pleats of one complete set each then you need an extra 2 ft of single width cloth for the small pleats - perhaps another foot or more for the large pleats and then possibly a bit more to get the sett placed evenly on the front apron, in the 8 inch tartan oevr the 6 inch tartan sett

If I am measuring correctly with the central bands of color center and measuring the two secondary bands on either side (this is the sett?) it is only 5 inches across on the Galbraith Ancient. Which would seem to indicate that it is a good tartan for a 5 yard kilt.

[Pleater]

The sett is the repeat of the pattern - I put the 0 of the ruler on the left edge of some prominant stripe and measure to the exact same spot in the next repeat of the pattern.

If it is only 5 inches that would mean a pleat having to fit into that measurement - with a 1 inch show the pleat would be a rather measly 2 inches deep.

Still, if it is a heavy material that might be enough.

[Scottish Chi]

I made a 4-yard box-pleated kilt recently from 16 oz Weathered Ferguson wool, following Barb's book with a few modifications. It is every bit as tailored as a "tank", but is oh so comfortable. I wore it to the Woodland games last month and did not suffer "kilt envy" in the least bit.

If I could have a 16 oz weathered Ferguson with a knife pleat I wouldn't suffer kilt envy ever!!! Since I can't sew and don't have a machine to learn on I'll have to wait until... But one day... one day...

Cheers! Bill