Tartan width? Sett? Repeat? Stripe to Stripe?

[MacWage]

Having a random collection of tartan fabrics, I was curious of two things:

How wide are most kilting tartans? I know, it varies widely by tartan to tartan and material to material. Yet, what is a "normal" range that "looks good for kilting"?


Also, how do you measure that?

What is sett measure-what point to what point?
What does repeat to repeat actually measure?

The best (most consistantly applied and understood) is of a major center stripe from one appearance to it's next. (Which would make Cambell of Argyle exactly twice as wide as Gordon from yellow to yellow, assuming all else is the same).

I ask because I thought I once knew, BUT I have seen the terms used and abused that I now want to see if I was right.

This thread is spruned on by some fabric just recieved in mail from a Clan group buy that is only three inches center to center! I will use it as a boxpleat with three inch wide boxes to set. I was told it was a 3 inch sett once and repeat once. Is that the correct? Are they all three the same or is one HALF of center to center (sett and reverse as I think it is)?

[Southern Breeze]

Help!! I know the answers only my minds gone blank. It's like forgetting your own phone number.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Sett is measured from one stripe to the next matching stripe that begins the repeat. That being said, 3 inches seems very small. Are you sure it is kilt fabric you have and not something with a smaller set designed to be used for a fly plaid, shawl, table cloth, etc.?

And I think that a sett of 5-6 inches is a minimum for a nice looking tartan. With a 1 inch reveal, the pleats would still be 2 inches deep (slightly shallow) and you could make the reveal 3/4" or even a little less to get a deeper pleat.

[MacWage]

It was supposed to be a kilt tartan (in cotton) for a clan group. I was SHOCKED when I saw its size today!!

I WILL still use it (it'll be good practice, just not what I expected!!!)

The terminology lead me to expect a 6 inch stripe to stripe. Yet, it could make a decent box pleat. So, I will. It will STILL look better than some of the absolute CRAP I see at games!

This lead me to wonder if I understood the terminology correctly and so others could hear/read a SOLID explaination. Thereby, all the websites and users can be on the same page, especially us ametuer kiltmakers. If I could help ONE of us from making this same mistake, it is a tread well served!

[arrogcow]

A while back I made comparisons with a Tank, a 5 yard and a SWK. The SWK (nightstalker) has a sett of 3 1/2" . However, my tank has a sett (montgomery) that is only 4 1/2", yet still has over 5" pleat depth. How, put more than one repeat in the pleat.

Adam

[MacWage]

Sett is measured from one stripe to the next matching stripe that begins the repeat. That being said, 3 inches seems very small. Are you sure it is kilt fabric you have and not something with a smaller set designed to be used for a fly plaid, shawl, table cloth, etc.?

And I think that a sett of 5-6 inches is a minimum for a nice looking tartan. With a 1 inch reveal, the pleats would still be 2 inches deep (slightly shallow) and you could make the reveal 3/4" or even a little less to get a deeper pleat.

In such case, most kilt makers use multiple setts. 1.5-3 center to center per pleat.

[MacWage]

What I think sett means:
Using Wallace, because it is so simple and easy to use as demo.

Sett-> black stripe on red to yellow stripe on black

Is that the Sett OR is sett from yellow to yellow? :confused:

What is the repeat on Wallace? :confused:
-Black on red to yellow?
-Yellow to yellow?

When THAT is answered I will be satisfied.

[MacWage]

OK -> None of the experts bit!
I'll go ahead

Using Wallace as the example:

Sett- 1/2 yellow to yellow-> black on red to yellow on black

Repeat-> Sett PLUS the reverse-> What is repeated in full
(This is the stripe to stripe)

Yes, it was the Wallace that I bought (Great-Great Grandmother was a Wallace-> married a Neel and their daughter married a Wilson, whose daughter was my mother).

I was told a 3 inch sett (which it is not) When it was recieved, I though-> "That don't look right!" I measured a 1.5 inch sett and the full repeat of 3 inches.

This particular sett will work in a box pleat of a 3 inch box pleat-> sett for a full repeat. I plan to use 3 repeats to make it work. Not what I would advise, but it is good practice, I have no other use for the fabric, and it will look good in the end. Actually, not to far off historic portraits.

On almost ANY other tartan, this would not work. On all of my other tartan fabrics and ANY Black Watch based pattern (inc. my own MacNeil) it wouldn't be usable! Yet, on Wallace it will.

All readers-> Members and Lurkers:

Beware of the terms used by fabric merchants! The ones that specialize in tartan SHOULD know their correct meaning. Others, however, use them incorrectly at times. Make sure you ASK for a measurement of center stripe to the SAME center stripe accross a FULL repeat.

[HeathBar]

The official sett of a tartan , I guess, would be the recorded thread count with the tartan authorities. A repeat would be from one point in the sett to the exact same point in the next sett (middle of your yellow line to the middle of the next same yellow line. The thread count of the tartan may go something like 10K 5R 10K 5R 2Y 5R 10K 5R 10K. K=Black, R=Red, Y-yellow. The sett begins and ends in black. The yellow strip is in the middle. So a repeat might be the yellow stripe in one sett to the yellow stripe in the next sett, or the fist red stripe in one sett to the first red stripe in the next sett.

The size of the sett would be measured from the first black thread to the last black thread, in the above mentioned ,made-up, tartan. But you should get the same measurement if you measure from the middle of the yellow stripe to the middle of the next yellow stripe. The size of the sett is mostly related to the weight of the fabric. An 11oz tartan will have the same thread count as a 16 oz tartan. But the 11 oz might have a 5 inch sett, while the 16 oz has an 8 inch sett. The difference is that the thread used in the 16 oz material is thicker than the 11 oz thread.

When measuring a sett to determine it size measure along the length of the material not the width. I can't remember which is warp and which is weft. Sometimes setts may not come out as perfect squares. So meaure by the length since that is how you will pleat it.

All of this is explained the Barb T's book, "The Art of Kiltmaking". This is a must read for anyone interested in making a kilt. It is a worthwhile investment.

I hope I have stated everything correctly. It is approaching 1AM.

PS If you do have material that has a 3 inch sett, you can always consider pleating to every other sett. If you pleat to a yellow stripe, pleat every other yellow stripe. You will use twice as much material in the pleats, but your pleats will be twice as deep.

Happy Kilting

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Heath has it right. Using your Wallace as an example, the full sett is:

K4 R32 K32 Y4

This could just as easily be given as Y4 K32 R32 K4. The direction doesn't matter, because either way you do it, the tartan looks the same.

This is the full sett, not the full repeat. One full repeat of the sett would bring you back to your starting point. In this case:

K4 R32 K32 Y4 K32 R32 K4

When tartan merchants give you the sett size, what they are actually giving you is the size of one full repeat of the sett. You get this measurement by measuring from any line in the tartan to that same line in the next sett repeat. It's easier if you use one of the obvious pivots, though, and in this case that means either the narrow black or yellow lines.

On most kilting tartans, the size of the sett will vary from 6" to 9" on average. Some very simple tartans may have a smaller sett repeat (like Rob Roy MacGregor, for instance) in which case you will probably want to incorporate more than one sett in a pleat. Some more complex tartans (like anything based on Black Watch) will have a larger sett repeat, in which case you may need to use less than one full repeat in the sett (I guarantee you that every Gordon kilt pleated to stripe is only pleated to the half sett -- check it out). But I find a 6" to 9" repeat to be average.

Aye,
Matt