Tartan flashes...

[motorman4life]

I had some spare material from my Modern MacDonald traditional kilt and I was pondering the idea of making matching kilt flashes. I stopped by the local tailor and inquired about it. The nice lady gave me an estimate of "I don't know, maybe about $12" for 4 flashes and I left about a 1/8 yard of scrap material with a single flash to use as a template. It was a plain flash with a split end and stiff backing.

I told her it was no hurry and left a phone number for her to call when they were ready. So, about 2 months pass. I go by today and inquired, because I had not heard anything. She starts in about "it's been so longgg..." and I reminded her I had left a number that she had never called. She pulled out the zip-loc bag and there were 4 pristine MacDOnald flashes and my solid one with the remaining fabric... so far so good. I also saw my note with my cellphone number and "call me when they are ready" on it... no biggie.

I looked at them and none of them matched. Hmmm, that one is on me, I guess. I had never mentioned having them match. Otherwise, they looked great. So I asked her how much I owed her. She pointed out the backing, which was much nicer than that on the sample. She said it cost her $10 for 2' of the backing. Then she tells me I owe her $25. I pointed out that she had quoted me $12. She scoffed and told me how much work and expense went into them and she said, "I should be charging you $50 for all the work these took." I was stunned.

So, I figured we were in a negotiation and I offered her $20. She replied, "I think $4 each is very fair." I said, "Okay, that would be $16, I agree." She looked shocked, like I had just slapped her in the face. She said, "No, it is $25, that is it!" "I tired to explain that $4 each for 4 flashes was $16 and I would give her that. I laid the $20 down and she starts in about how I am short changing her. So, I said, "Fine, you say $4 each for 4, I'll give you $5 each for 4, that is $20 total, including tax." I stacked the very crisp, mismatched flashes up in front of her and put the $20 bill next to them. "Which do you want?" I asked.

She took the flashes.

Fine. I walked out. I lost the fabric and now I'm pissed off. I wasn't looking to rip anyone off. Someone please tell me, am I the one that is screwed up here?

Anyone know where I can get some off-the-rack modern MacDonald tartan flashes?

[Colin]

I would demand the fabric back. It sounds like a price was agreed upon before the amount of work was known (her fault not yours) and I would point out that the number to call was there and she did not do that either. Point out that the fabric was your own, and that she will need to replace it or take the $20. Do this all very politely (sugar to catch the fly) and in writing. Express your disappointment at the situation and the conflicting quotes you were given. Give them a date to decide upon the return of the material (un cut) or the purchase of the flashes for the $20.

I sympathize that it took time and extra material for this woman to make these flashes, but the $20 was covering the original quote plus 80% of the added cost for the backing she had to purchase. Pretty fair if you ask me.

[RockyR]

Without passing judgement, I'll say this...

Here in my store we sell SOLID flashes (premade... I buy them in bulk, mark them up and resell them) for $13. These are mass produced and do not need to "match up".

Now... If I was a STRAIGHT RETAILER (and DIDN'T make kilts) and just ordered kilts and flashes from House of Edgar, the following would be true... Keep in mind, this is not "overcharging" a customer, just marking things up with the STANDARD retail %:

If I was to order a kilt AND flash, I would charge $25 for the flash (on top of the kilt cost).

If I had to JUST ORDER FLASH, I would (as a STRAIGHT RETAILER) charge $45.

[Panache]

The tailor was at fault.

She gave a price that proved to be less than the time/material warranted.
Once she realized this she should have called you before procurring material or cutting up your fabric. She could have apologized and admitted she had underestimated the cost of the flashes and given you a new quote. You could then decide if you wanted to go ahead or not with the accurate price.

To make the flashes and then expect you to pay double the original estimate is not appropriate. At this point she should have taken the loss and kept you as a customer. Perhaps you would have tipped her for the work and helped make up the difference.

Cheers

[Caradoc]

I had some spare material from my Modern MacDonald traditional kilt and I was pondering the idea of making matching kilt flashes. I stopped by the local tailor and inquired about it. The nice lady gave me an estimate of "I don't know, maybe about $12" for 4 flashes and I left about a 1/8 yard of scrap material with a single flash to use as a template.

The biggest mistake I see here is that you didn't get the quote in writing.

I've spent too many years as an independent contractor to go by a verbal agreement for anything.

[motorman4life]

Thanks for the feedback.

I do feel like I "gave up" the scrap fabric when I gambled and asked her to choose between the flashes or the money. I don't feel right going back on my "offer" in spite of the fact she went back on her initial estimate. I honestly don't know if I would have even placed the order if the original quote had been more than $20. I know I was quite pleased when she quoted me $12 for the set and I was planning on tipping her $4 if they had turned out as nice as they were. I was dissapointed they did not match, but I considered that my fault for not communicating it clearly, so I wasn't going to hold that against her.

I know, quality flashes are not cheap. Keep in mind, this was my fabric and I was going to use my elastic garters (from the solid ones that I bought for $12 at the faire), so she was just making flashes and not garters. I have done a lot of business on handshakes and never had a problem. I have also had stuff altered there and there has never been any significant deviation from the verbal quote, until now. In this case, it was not a matter of not having it in writing. She did not deny quoting me the initial $12 estimate. She just decided it was going to cost more once it was done.

Oh, well. Lesson learned.
My g/f is 5'2" and she has to have ALL of her off-the-shelf pants and skirts hemmed as well as sleeves. She USED to go there and would easily spend $400-$500 a year at that particular tailor for her alterations. I also have a good friend that used them exclusively. He is about 5'4" and he needs all of his clothes altered. He said he won't be going there anymore. They specialize in wedding dresses, so I doubt they'll miss the business, but I know this little $4 debate has easily cost her $1000 a year.

I guess this is what I get for not ordering on the Internet!!

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Mark, sorry to hear about the bad experience. Finding a good seamstress/tailor is usually a great thing. Lets you down to have a bad experience with one. While the value of the flashes might be what has been discussed, it does not change the fact that a supplier quoted a price for a service. It does not matter that the service cost more to deliver. They are obligated to complete on the agreement. If they determined during the flash making process that it would take more effort, they should have immediately contacted you to confirm your willingness to pay more.

All that being said, this seems to be an all too common interaction with small business owners. I am not bashing anyone, just pointing out what seems to be a characteristic of small business owners. You have to be very careful about what you commit to deliver. Some (our own Rocky and Kelly, Jerry from SWK, Matt, etc.) will honor their commitments no matter what happens. Others decide mid-stream to change their minds. I know which I would rather deal with.

[Riverkilt]

You obviously weren't in uniform.

Consider going back while in uniform and asking her what she does want. She's obviously had time to think it over too.

You might also print up various kiltmaker's prices for tartan flashes off the Internet and show them to her.

I believe you can get off the shelf Macdonald tartan kilt flashes from Sport Kilt. Hope its the right tartan.



Ron

[RockyR]

bottom line... she should have called you before spending the $10 on the backing and making them up. The lack of communication was her fault. Bring THAT to her attention as well as her original quote and ask her (politely) if arguing and wasting time and energy and losing several customers is worth the $5 difference in price (from $20 offered to $25). Perhaps bring your girlfriend with you when you go back and hope she recognizes her and the fact she comes there often.

If she says that it's a matter of principle, tell her that on PRINCIPLE she should have either charged you the $12 or CALLED you first.

The problem with "established" small businesses (been somewhere for 10 years or more) is that they seem to lose the sense of desire to give the level of customer service that's often built them up as a business. They kind of expect business to just come to them rather than continually building a customer base.

[Raphael]

May be the lady should realise that not every business deal is going to be a money maker. Business 101, my friend.