X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Results 1 to 10 of 18

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    14th December 05
    Location
    Coeur d Alene, ID
    Posts
    4,410
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for posting this Scott - I think its always interesting to understand the real history of the highland clans.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    13th May 06
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    592
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pdcorlis
    Thanks for posting this Scott - I think its always interesting to understand the real history of the highland clans.
    Agreed. There are two aspects of this that I find particularly interesting. First, what we now understand as the Highland clan system is a somewhat "new" concept. Clan Morrison has only existed for about 1,000 years, but clearly my ancestors in that region have a much longer history. Also, I'm no historian, but I would imagine that the clan concept as we know it now has evolved considerably along with the use of family names.

    Second, tartans as used by our ancestors were not regarded the way they are today. I read somewhere recently that very few Outer Hebrides Scots actually own a kilt or any garment made from "their" tartan. I can't attest to the accuracy of these statements, but considering the very traditional, conservative lifestyle generally attributed to the area, and from all accounts the warm, close knit nature of these Highland communities, it isn't surprising that the need simply isn't there for the pomp and tradition that many North Americans and others who no longer live in the heart of Scotland seem to find comfort in. After all, they live it every day.

    Having said that, there is by all appearances a resurgence in Highland games in islands many communities. I wonder: Has the self-image of the Highland Scot been influenced by those that left - some of them hundreds of years ago?

    Anyway, Carol and I plan to get a first hand look at all this some day soon (we hope). Plenty to think about though in preparation for our visit.

    Regards,
    Scott Gilmore

  3. #3
    macwilkin is offline
    Retired Forum Moderator
    Forum Historian

    Join Date
    22nd June 04
    Posts
    9,938
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    recommended reading...

    Having said that, there is by all appearances a resurgence in Highland games in islands many communities. I wonder: Has the self-image of the Highland Scot been influenced by those that left - some of them hundreds of years ago?
    Recommended reading on this subject: Celeste Ray's Highland Heritage: Scottish Americans in the American South. (U. of North Carolina, 2000).

    Cheers,

    Todd

  4. #4
    Join Date
    14th December 05
    Location
    Coeur d Alene, ID
    Posts
    4,410
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Recently I've been reading The Scottish Highlanders a personal view by Charles MacKinnon - recommended by a fellow XMarker. There, he states that the number of identifiable highland "clans" at the time just prior to Culloden was between forty and fifty - far different than the "modern" history of clans and tartans after the great tartan revival of 1822. It's fascinating (for me at least) to understand and appreciate the full sweep of history for the highland clan system.

  5. #5
    macwilkin is offline
    Retired Forum Moderator
    Forum Historian

    Join Date
    22nd June 04
    Posts
    9,938
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pdcorlis
    Recently I've been reading The Scottish Highlanders a personal view by Charles MacKinnon - recommended by a fellow XMarker. There, he states that the number of identifiable highland "clans" at the time just prior to Culloden was between forty and fifty - far different than the "modern" history of clans and tartans after the great tartan revival of 1822. It's fascinating (for me at least) to understand and appreciate the full sweep of history for the highland clan system.
    MacKinnon is good as well. He dispells some of the myths of Highland History.

    I also recommend Ian Grimble's Clans and Chiefs.

    T.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    31st May 06
    Location
    Clinton, South Carolina (USA)-> Atlanta native
    Posts
    1,787
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Grimble, MacKinnon and Celeste Ray are all worthwhile reading. None of them are difficult, but are all interesting. I have corresponded with Ray before and find her very intersted in learning more.

    Another book similar to Ray's is "Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South" by Grady McWhiney. He essentially ties descriptions of Ireland and Scotland to that of the Old South (US), while tying England to New England. While it sounds like bad history, it is actually well written, defended, and reasoned. It actually by a university press: University Alabama Press.

    Amazon:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/081...lance&n=283155

    I've also come across a few other "Clan history" books, but find MacKinnon and Grimble as the most useful. My copy of MacKinnon is my third. One lost on my trip in Scotland during 2000 and the other borrowed/donated by/to another. I have 2 copies of Grimble (purchased separately because differnt formating, I didn't realize was same book till started to actually read it).

    Back to orginal post.

    It is interesting how the island/penninsula was accessed in times of old. How did they climb it, is there some under/above water tunnel, flooded at high tide?

    Good defensive locations are often reused by subsequent settlement, so a direct blood tie to the Iron Age settlement may be questionable. That said, people tend to not leave their ancestral home easily. (For example, just see the MacNeils and their fierce adherence to to the small, barely inhabitable island of Barra.)

  7. #7
    macwilkin is offline
    Retired Forum Moderator
    Forum Historian

    Join Date
    22nd June 04
    Posts
    9,938
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    OT:McWhiney

    Another book similar to Ray's is "Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South" by Grady McWhiney. He essentially ties descriptions of Ireland and Scotland to that of the Old South (US), while tying England to New England. While it sounds like bad history, it is actually well written, defended, and reasoned. It actually by a university press: University Alabama Press.
    Read McWhiney's two "Celtic South" books, the aforementioned "Cracker Culture", and the last chapter of "Attack and Die", which discusses Southern military strategy and tactics in the Civil War with a large grain of salt, though. Interesting reading, but it should be pointed out that many people of "Celtic" stock also served in the Federal Army -- the Irish regiments of New York, Mass. and Pennsylvania, the 23rd Illinois and 7th Missouri "Irish"; the 79th New York and 12th Illinois (both Scottish regiments) and the numerous Scots, Ulster-Scots and Welsh soldiers who did not necessarily join an "ethnic" regiment.

    Arthur MacArthur, father of General Douglas MacArthur, for example, was of Scottish heritage and was awarded the CMOH for his actions at Lookout Mountain with the 24th Wisconsin. On a personal note, many of my own Scottish ancestors served in Iowa regiments during the war.

    That's not saying McWhiney is wrong, just that he ignores the Northern "Celts" to prove his point. Ray, David Fischer and James Leyburn are much more reliable.

    OT off.

    Regards,

    Todd
    Last edited by macwilkin; 23rd July 06 at 06:07 PM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0