Flag Kilts

**Rex_Tremende** · 7th August 06, 05:10 PM

I think in terms of design, flags look best as flags. Rearrange the elements a bit so that you have something that evokes the flag without actually being one, and now you've got a design suitable for clothing. However, the line between garish and stylish is a fine one.

My $0.02,
Rex in Cincinnati

**Panache** · 7th August 06, 05:14 PM

I should note that personally, I wouldn't be too interested in a Flag Kilt. I certainly think it's fine for other people. Hamish looks great in his (then again Hamish can pull off a rainbow kilt). I think Rex put it very well. Not to my tastes.

Cheers

**Frank McGrath** · 7th August 06, 05:34 PM

Here in the US, there are federal laws governing the use of the flag. The flag itself can not (should not) be worn as clothing. I have several flag patches that I have sewn on jackets and uniforms. The Maryland flag (which, by the way, is the most beautiful state flag in the U.S.) I have never seen any state regs regarding the flag other than you are not to use it in a business logo, although a lot do. I personally would not wear a flag of another country out of pure respect for the flag and It's people. I will still wear my RWB shirt on Holidays and to parades. But....I am very
(read that VERY) picky about the flag of my country. I taught the flag class to Cub and Boy Scout leaders and was very shocked at how many: 1 didn't know, 2 didn't care. I don't teach it any more after the incident.

Okay.....I'm sorry. rant over. stepping down off the soapbox now.

**Chris Webb** · 7th August 06, 05:39 PM

I think the one main issue that determines just what flag is ever made into a kilt, shirt, pants or any other garment is simply whether or not it's a good lookin' flag. Honestly, some flags really don't look that good and simply can't be made into a decent garment. Ugly flags don't like to be made into garments and are jealous of the good lookin' flags that do.

The Texas Flag lends itself well to any garment you want to make ... right now I'm wearing Texas Flag running shorts!! In the Stockyards of Fort Worth you'll see Texas Flag shirts, hats, pants, scarves, bandanas, two-piece and one-piece bathing suits ... you name it. Of course, the design, colors, simplicity and universal familiarity makes it perfect for such uses.

A Texas Flag kilt? I'd buy one RIGHT NOW!! It'd be a great lookin' kilt. Let the complex and ugly flags dispute their use as a garment all they like ... the really good lookin' flags, like me, will .....

Kilt ON!!

Chris Webb

**SingleBarrelBourbon** · 7th August 06, 05:53 PM

Sorry, Gents and any Ladies that may be out there for my rant.

I was addressing the use of the US Flag as a piece of clothing which would be completely inappropriate. There is a proper way to show honor while wearing the flag in the form of a patch or pin. I know there are those that wear hats and other pieces of clothing with flags (or what could appear to be a part of the flag on them, I am also guilty), but please wear it with respect.

IMHO, if one wished to show honor to their nation in the form of a kilt, that person should wear the appropriate tartan not their national flag. We do not want to offend anyone.

**Hamish** · 7th August 06, 06:14 PM

There appears to be a cultural element in all of this. In the USA I understand that the national flag is treated rather differently to the manner in which we, here in the United Kingdom, do. Over there you salute your flag and treat it with reverence. I do not think the same applies here - for one thing it is rare indeed for any of us to display our Union flag at our homes, but it is flown on many public buildings, especially on occasions of special importance. I am thinking only of cilvilian attitudes or practice here - what goes on in the military is probably quite different, although I do not recollect having to salute the Union flag whilst doing my National Service back in the 1950s!

As for wearing the flag as a garment, I would never do it. The Saltire kilt is NOT a flag and so I have no qualms about wearing it, although I would probably not do so on a daily 'going-about-my-business' basis - it is more for wear to Scottish-themed events or on Scottish anniversaries. Even then, I would wear it only casually, not formally. Down here in the south of England it will probably not even be recognised as a representation of the St. Andrews Cross (the name 'Saltire' is barely known or used here by those without Scottish connections!) anyway!

**neo71665** · 7th August 06, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by SingleBarrelBourbon

Sorry, Gents and any Ladies that may be out there for my rant.

I was addressing the use of the US Flag as a piece of clothing which would be completely inappropriate. There is a proper way to show honor while wearing the flag in the form of a patch or pin. I know there are those that wear hats and other pieces of clothing with flags (or what could appear to be a part of the flag on them, I am also guilty), but please wear it with respect.

IMHO, if one wished to show honor to their nation in the form of a kilt, that person should wear the appropriate tartan not their national flag. We do not want to offend anyone.

I'm also gonna say my sorries now. I was also addressing the use of the US flag and forgot we have many from all over the world here. I only posted the link to show people some of the "rules" that are broken every day over our (the US) flag. That was also alot of the reason why the movie easy rider caused so much a stir way back when. I could really care less if one wishes to wear any flag if they are doing it out of respect but at least know why you shouldn't be doing it so if somebody does say something about it you know why.

**MacWage** · 7th August 06, 08:05 PM

Thanks and congrats to all of you!!!!!

I was actually expecting to see a PM saying that this thread was gone.

It is VERY interesting.

One reason I sought out and bought the Amerixan Bicentennial tartan is precisely so I can wear a "patriotic kilt" without it being a misappropriated clan tartan or being a US flag.

I also have just recieved (this evening) Caledonia tartan, which was seen as a "nationalistic Scottish" tartan in the late 18th and 19th centuries. It is my Scottish equivalent to my Bicentenial tartan.

CajunScot and I exchanged PMs about American civil war battle flags earlier and I was struck by the different ways that a flag can be taken. He referred to southern battle flags as war "trophies." It struck me as odd, but that is what they are. To the northern units that took southern flags, they were trophies, just as the Nazi and Rising Sun flags taken by Americans and proudly displayed in homes today. Yet, to many southerners, they would be taken as something far different. In this case, the meaning of the flag itself and the most appropriate place to preserve it (in the home of the "appropriators" or the home of the original regiment) is largly a matter of opinion. My main concern is that the flags are treated with respect (which brings into question whether or not a Nazi flag- and all the evil it represents- should be treated the same, but that is a matter best left alone here).

By nature, flags are full of meaning and intentional design, representing those who created it and bore it. I find it facinating to learn the complex background, meaning, and history of every, even those whose meanings I detest.

My favorite flags are a mixed bag of national, state, battle, and organizational flags. One of my absolute favorites is the American Revolution's Gadsden Flag, which is yellow and bears a coiled rattlesnake and the words "Don't Tread on Me." It was designed for the American navy, but not adopted. Rather, it was used a virtually a trans-Carolina state flag, especially in the Southern campaign of 1780-1781. It holds great meaning for me, though most don;t know what ot is and don't care.

My state flag (South Carolina) is a blue flag, with a palmetto tree (a type of palm tree native to the Carolina coast) and a cresent moon to the top hoist corner (the canton). The cresent and palmetto are used heavily in this state on hats, shirts, windows, and anywhere it can be displayed. It is far more common than any US flag and even more than any college or sports team. It is seen as an effective "nationalistic" flag, for many in this state are South Carolinians first and Americans second. I am sometimes called a "pretender" though I've lived here since 1994 and my wife, kids, and mother are from here (the same area I live now actually), because I was born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia. My ""personal" flag is a mix of symbols from specific Georgia, South Carolina, Scotland, and the US flags.

Flags have power. I use the flags and the tartans that represent the same thing as the flag in specific and appropriate manners.

There seems to be a general wearriness to wear "national flags" based kilts (except the Scot saltire), so a corresponding tartan below the waist and a pin, patch, or other appropiate flag representation above it would be a good compromise.

Non-(US) American nationals, are there rules as to the display of your national flag?

As for the Born-in-Scotland Scots here, how do ya'll feel about the saltire flag on hats, shirts, etc. Is it nice or cause a viceral reaction?

Thanks for all the posts, and for keeping them in an appropriate form and respect.

Very interested,

**Andrew Green** · 7th August 06, 11:13 PM

I seem to recall a picture of Andrew Carnegie (ya know, famous philanthropist, and immigrated Scotsman who basically created U.S. Steel) where he was wearing a kilt that was most definitely stars and stripes. The apron of the kilt was the upper portion of the flag that had the stars, and obviously the stripes started across from there. Whether or not this was an artist embelishment or not, I do not know... but there was definitely no disrespect in the portrayed attitude of the wearer. Likely, Carnegie is one of the most highly regarded Scottish-Americans. Not that I would wear a flag-kilt, but it shows that there might have been a historical precedent for such a thing.

I too am under the impression that it is all about attitude. Although with some, it may help to have the kilt a solid colour, and keep the flag design on the front apron.