Why hand-sewn?

[Barb T]

I certainly didn't mean this as a dig against _anyone_ who has graduated from the Keith School. And I honestly don't think of Kathy Lare and me as being "in competition". We both make kilts, and I don't resent it when someone chooses her to make a kilt.

What _does_ rankle some is when someone who knows neither of us sees the "certified" and assumes that one of us has chosen to be certified by some independent accrediting agency and the other either hasn't chosen to be certified or isn't good enough to be certified. If independent certification were available, then a lack of certification means something. For example, in many states, geologists have to be licensed, and state requirements have been set up and enacted into law. Saying that you are a licensed professional geologist means that you have met the state standards.

If, on the other hand, Hamilton College decided unilaterally in New York State (which does not require professional licensing for geologists) to define a list of criteria for being a professional geologist and then issued a certificate for all those graduating from Hamilton with a geology major that says "certified geologist", only geo majors who buy an education from Hamilton would have the opportunity to be certified. Under those circumstances, the fact that other geologists graduating in the state aren't certified doesn't mean a thing.

The same goes for kiltmaking. It means something if someone is certified. It doesn't mean _anything_ if someone _isn't_ certified. I applaud those who have the time and money to earn the Keith School's certification. I just wish that it were more widely understood that this is the _only_ way to earn that certification and that _not_ having it means something very different than it would if certification were done by an independent accrediting agency.

Barb

[Riverkilt]

Thanks for clearing up the "dig" part.

Kathy's the only one I've run across using her certification in her advertising, but that's over here stateside where she's the only one...

I certainly understand all the arguments for and against certification and how their value must be examined. Its been brought up before a few months ago.

Never heard of anyone who earned any type of certification, in any field, not promoting that to the public. Think its done to show pride in accomplishment and reassure prospective clients - not dig competitors.

Me, after researching some, I'm impressed by a certificate from the Keith School of Kiltmaking.

Think that's the only kiltmaking certification out there so far...? So, that's what we're talking about.

Ron

[Barb T]

I think absolutely that anyone who has earned a certification should display it proudly and advertise it. And what it takes to get certified at the Keith School is impressive in terms of time and commitment of resources.

My only beef is that it appears not to be generally understood that certification is unique to the Keith School - they established certification and are the only ones who certify. As far as I know, it's not possible to take an exam and/or present your work to an independent examining board, for example, in order to become certified. Given the circumstances, it doesn't seem fair to me to ding someone for not being certified or, conversely, to automatically view someone who is certified as being a better kiltmaker.

And, if something has happened in the last couple of years and certification is, in fact, more widely available, please let me know!!

Barb

[bubba]

Barb, send me a kilt, 42 x 43 x 22.5, and I'll evaluate it and if it passes the Bubba testing I'll certify you. :rolleyes:

[Barb T]

Hmmm - interesting thought!! What shall we call the Bubba certification?!?

Barb

[bubba]

Hmmm - interesting thought!! What shall we call the Bubba certification?!?

Barb

How bout the Bubba Certification for Whoop-*** Kiltmaking?

[Barb T]

Hi Riverkilt

Somehow or another, I'm not making it clear that I'm not trying to minimize anyone with credentials. Far from it!! It think it's wonderful and commendable that people have these credentials. I just think it's unfair to suggest that those who are not credentialed should, in this case, be criticized or downgraded as kiltmakers.

I went to the Scottish Qualfications Authority web site many months ago, and after much wading through, I concluded the following (and I just went back to the site to make sure that my memory was accurate):

-The SQA does not provide an independent examining board. They operate through places called centres, which are dominantly schools of one type or another, or through business (for SVC, the Scottish Vocational Qualifications). SQA approves the right to offer qualifications at these approved centres/businesses. SQA does not certify directly by an independent board as far as I can tell from anything on their web site.

-As I read it, anyone can propose national standards in anything that can be taught, or in any job that can be defined, and, if SQA approves, then standards are established by SQA, and SQA selects the centres/businesses that can certify by those standards. So, given the fact that the Keith School was the only place that one could become certified until recently, I concluded (I think correctly) that they proposed national standards in kiltmaking that SQA accepted, and they became the first, and at that time, the only place that could give out SQA certification in kiltmaking. It's clear from Riverkilt's post that Hector Russell has applied for and received SQA centre designation, so apparently the Keith School is no longer the only place that can give SQA certification.

The SQA website is huge and hard to navigate. Their search engine doesn't work very well, and it's crashed my web browsers repeatedly. I've yet to find the text of the SQA qualifications for kiltmaking. I can't get anything by typing "kiltmaking" into their search engine. If you type "Traditional Handcraft Kiltmaking Award" into the search engine, you get nothing except the message "if you haven't found the information you wanted, then please call....". And the SVC section under fashion/textiles and under creative crafts (which is the closest of anything in the SVC list to kiltmaking) says that web information is forthcoming but not currently available. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place on their web site, but I've had no luck so far in finding the word kiltmaking. I'm sure it's there, but damned if I can find it. I've tried downloading pdfs and have had crashes there, too. I gave up trying to find specific info on kiltmaking the last time, and I'm having no better luck this time. If anyone manages to download the qualifications, please share them with us!! I'll keep trying with different web browsers.

And again, if I'm wrong about any of this, please let me know!

And I'm not angry about any of this, nor am I trying to belittle anyone's accomplishments or put them down. I just think that the playing field for certification isn't particularly level at the moment, and few kiltmakers have the opportunity to become certified even if they want to. That's unlike many certification processes that are more ecumenical in terms of access. So, to my mind, it isn't fair to judge a kiltmaker by the fact that he/she is not certified.

Barb

[Riverkilt]

There may be something up. A quick Google turns up Carol Fitzherbert with MacIsaac Kiltmakers up in St. Peter's, Nova Scotia and a LOT of Keith Kilt School certified kiltmakers in Scotland advertising their services with the Keith Kilt School certification prominent.

Many of the Scottish kiltmakers certified by the Keith Kilt School have a link on their webpage to the Scottish Qualifications Authority...so there's apparently more oversite to the certification than just the school itself.

I've yet to be able to find the kilt part of the SQA yet though...a pretty extensive site overseening many areas.

Ron

[Riverkilt]

Scottish Qualifications Authority
The Scottish Qualifications Authority is the national body in Scotland responsible for the development, accreditation, assessment, and certification of qualifications other than degrees

And then there's Helean Kiltmakers in Dunedin, New Zealand where kiltmaker Ann Corey Advertises on her webpage

Only Kiltmakers in the Southern Hemisphere
to hold the Scottish Qualifications Authority Certificate
in Traditional Handcraft Kiltmaking skills.

Hector Russel's website proudly advertises

SQA's Traditional Handcraft Kiltmaking AwardThe Hector Russell kiltmaking workshop was recently approved by the Scottish Qualification Authority to offer its kiltmakers the SQA's Traditional Handcraft Kiltmaking Award. Hector Russell Kiltmaker becomes the first retail kiltmaker to offer its staff this qualification which will provide them with the industry's first nationally recognised training award.



Kathy Lare's website speaks to her kiltmaking training.

Kathy began to order so much tartan from the mills in Scotland that she caught the attention of Master Kiltmaker Robert McBain of the Keith Kilt School. McBain sent an invitation to her to attend the kilt school, in the mill town of Keith, Scotland, the only school for kiltmaking in the world. The master kiltmaker was the former kiltmaker for the Scottish Regiment the Gordon Highlanders, and the only certified teacher in the world qualified to train for the Scottish Vocation Educational Council (SCOTVEC) award. She has become the first American to attend the school and the first fully certified kiltmaker in North America attaining the Scottish Qualifications Authority Award in Traditional handcraft and Kilt Making Skills. Returning to Scotland in May of 1999 she studied the unique crafting of the military box pleated kilt of the Scottish regiments and achieved an award in Traditional Handcraft Kilt Manufacturing. This professional development award paves the way towards becoming a Master Kiltmaker, which was almost a dying breed now in Scotland.


I just don't think the efforts to minimize these credentials are valid.

Ron