perceptions of formal attire

**Andrew Green** · 18th September 06, 04:51 PM

Kilted KT:
So you would say that from your experiences, black is the better colour?
I must admit, I am typically not a formal guy, so even a full ensemble in brown would likely be fancy enough for my tastes, even if no one else agrees with the notion

What are your thoughts on formal as a mindset or presentation/sense of confidence in your choices?

I am tryingto partially dig and see what mental factors help comprise the concept of formal.

**Panache** · 18th September 06, 04:58 PM

Andrew,

It seems to me as one moves up the fashion "ladder" (work clothes, casual, business casual, dressy, semi-formal, and formal) that the rules and restrictions for men become more and more rigid. Formal wear for men abides by certain rules. Do you need to follow them? No. But be aware you are breaking them. In one sense as a kilt wearer you are in luck. Brown accessories with a tuxedo would be rseen as completely out of place by the majority. Few people are in the know for kilted fashion and will not recognize your fashion faux pas. There are the rules. If you want to be daring, feel free to break them. But you are heading into territory without precedent here.

Cheers

**Andrew Green** · 18th September 06, 05:04 PM

Well, Matt puts up a nice case for using black as casual wear...
I usually use Matt's writings as a solid source of info. That being said, I have seen some nice, mildly furred sporrans that would look great as formal wear (and yeah, they are black). I do always say to follow the second commandment of wearing the kilt: Thou shalt accessorize well. And in all seriousness, the cost for a black leather belt, sporran, strap and shoes, isn't horrendous, and it can easily change up the look of your kilt... black accessories with a nice dress shirt would look pretty sharp, and you are unlikely to clash with anything wearing black.

I like this discussion so far... kinda want to see where it goes. Digging for others' insights and ideas, and not "just" traditionally accepted mediums.

Would anyone think that a guy in a kilt, wearing all brown accessories, and a brown pair of ghillies would be "over dressed?" As I have already purchased all but the brogues, and will use them to top off that particular set.

More thoughts if you please.

**mkmound** · 18th September 06, 05:17 PM

Some other thoughts for consideration (and I personally agree with Panache's and KKT's thoughts):

1) The metal most commonly used for formal wear accessories, e.g., cuff links, and on kilt attire, sporran cantles, etc., is silver. IMHO, silver looks better with black than brown. I suppose you could use gold with brown for formal purposes . . . but brass is the one of the most common metals paired with brown leather, and brass is usually considered a casual-accessory metal.

2) If your attire consisted of warm, gold-based tones, you might get away with it: kilt in a tartan with warm tones, a Montrose in chocolate brown velvet, ivory or cream colored jabot and lace cuffs instead of white, brown leathers / fur with gold trim. However, in my mind's eye, personally I see this as sort of 1970s and dated (having lived through that era . . . ). Then again, if you have olive skin tones and look very good in gold-toned colors, it might look very good on you.

Mark

**Andrew Green** · 18th September 06, 05:23 PM

Oh no, I am pasty white!
Ha ha ha.

Yes, I agree, silver would go better with black... but black compliments anything (which is why it is my typical choice for t-shirts, shirts, and slacks, and I don't get a choice about my black work pants with my security uniform).

As I had stated, I am not saying that black doesn't make fine formal wear, I just want to see what other people thought of what I thought. This is a good discussion so far, with people definitely leaning towards black as THE formal colour, and nothing is wrong with this.

**Panache** · 18th September 06, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Andrew Green

...Would anyone think that a guy in a kilt, wearing all brown accessories, and a brown pair of ghillies would be "over dressed?" As I have already purchased all but the brogues, and will use them to top off that particular set.

More thoughts if you please.

Andrew,

Get yourself a tweed kilt jacket, a turtle neck (or dress shirt and tie), a smart cap, and perhaps a good walking stick and you have a super kilted daywear outfit (my favorite kilted look).

Cheers

**Andrew Green** · 18th September 06, 05:39 PM

Panache:
I have been drooling over the thought of getting an older style blue bonnet (what else?!), and I have been wanting to get a kilt jacket sometime in the future (I was actually thinking one of the WPG replica WWI cutaways... khaki wool... a pretty neutral colour). I wouldn't be the first person to use military clothing or replicas in a clean ensemble... ahem...Rivekilt. So it shows that there are many of options out there. I recall reading something about Freedom Kilts trying to come up with an inexpensive kilt jacket in a brown tweed I think... which would not clash with the red of many tartans I like, and would match my affinity for brown leather.

As far as shirts go, I like the Jacobite style, and even older fashioned shirts... but for contemporary, I like the Dickies brand work shirts... the cut is large enough, and the sleeves long enough, and they are rather tough, and they don't fade very fast either... tucked in, no one would ever see the label, and I find they work well for casual wear (it's what I've got on at the moment, along with my SWK weathered Lamont).

**Andrew Green** · 18th September 06, 05:44 PM

"But you are heading into territory without precedent here."

Panache,
I am OK with that.

I am as far as I know, the only kiltie in Federal Way, but in no way the only guy in the greater Seattle/Tacoma area...which would make it really easy to bend hte fashion rules a bit. I am actually hoping to attend an All Clan's banquet that is going to be held in my town, and I am not sure how formal it is supposed to be... being a Scottish related function, I would naturally go kilted, but without the funds or time to acquire more accessories (notably black ones), I will be stuck with the brown, provided it ships out soon (items are still on back order... real downside of being built large), and I could theoretically get a set of brown brogues in time (I get paid at the end of the month again, and I get paid before the function... so I think 2 weeks is enough time for a pair of shoes to get mailed to me). I have never been to a formal function, so part of my questions stem from that...
If I showed up in what is typically considered daywear, but had a very clean and confident presentation... would anyone care or even notice?

**macwilkin** · 18th September 06, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Andrew Green

"But you are heading into territory without precedent here."

Panache,
I am OK with that.

I am as far as I know, the only kiltie in Federal Way, but in no way the only guy in the greater Seattle/Tacoma area...which would make it really easy to bend hte fashion rules a bit. I am actually hoping to attend an All Clan's banquet that is going to be held in my town, and I am not sure how formal it is supposed to be... being a Scottish related function, I would naturally go kilted, but without the funds or time to acquire more accessories (notably black ones), I will be stuck with the brown, provided it ships out soon (items are still on back order... real downside of being built large), and I could theoretically get a set of brown brogues in time (I get paid at the end of the month again, and I get paid before the function... so I think 2 weeks is enough time for a pair of shoes to get mailed to me). I have never been to a formal function, so part of my questions stem from that...
If I showed up in what is typically considered daywear, but had a very clean and confident presentation... would anyone care or even notice?

A lot of depends on the function and the group hosting it. The invitation or literature about the function should state "formal/black tie" on it to let folks know what the level of dress exactly is. And remember, the general public may not know the precise details of what constitutes formal, semi-formal, etc. Highland dress, but at a Burns Supper, Clan function, etc. you can bet there will be someone who does.

Now, I know that not every one at our Scottish society's Burns Supper wears black tie -- some wear white tie, others day wear, still others come in a suit. We certainly would not turn someone away or be rude to them, especially if day wear was all they had and were new to wearing a kilt. Contrary to what some think, the majority of traditionalists, myself included, are not going to give someone a "dressing down" for their attire. We had to start somewhere as well. I have standards I follow for Highland attire, but I do not expect others to, but if they ask me my opinon and advice, I will offer it, and only then.

I'd leave the Jacobite shirt at home, though, and go with a shirt and tie. Same wi' the military tunic -- unless you're a reenactor/living historian potraying a certain regiment and time period, mixing military kit and civlian "mufti" just looks -- well, odd, and might run the risk of offending someone, as many Scottish societies have expat members who may have served in the British Army.

So, bottom line (for me): stick with brown leathers for day wear, or wear black with formal attire.

Regards,

Todd

**GlassMan** · 18th September 06, 09:32 PM

I agree that brown looks best for the "country gentleman" look. Black is definitely what you should wear for formal attire. But by no means even consider a Jacobite shirt for formal wear. Not everyone likes a high collar/winged collar shirt and so there are also now nice formal shirts for standard collars. But you definitely do not want to wear a lace-up shirt in a formal setting.