Quality or quantity.....?

[Alan H]

Let's tallk about what it costs to make a kilt. I've done this before, eh, but it's been a while.

OK, I'd like to actually make a living as kiltmaker. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I own my house and have a mortgage. To do that, and save for retirement I make (or made, in my last job) ...oh, never mind. Thats pure fantasy.

So let's move to a rather less expensive housing market, where you can get by on a LOT less income, say ....$40,000 per year.

How much per hour, working a 40-hour week, 50 weeks per year, will earn $40,000 a year?
Answer: $800 per week, or twenty dollars an hour.

OK, I'm a custom handsewn kiltmaker, and a real pro and FAST, and let's say it takes me twenty hours of work to make a kilt. Let's say all I do is make kilts...I don't advertise, I don't answer correspondance, I don't have a web site, I don't package up kilts to mail them, I don't order material, I don't pay taxes or do bookkeeping, I don't do ANYTHING but make kilts all day long, 40 hours a week. Ri-i-i-i-i-i-ght.

Well, simple math says that it's $400 labor to make a kilt at $20 an hour, for 20 hours.

Labor: $400

Now, let's buy the material. Let's pretend that it costs $60 a yard. Now, since I'm running a business, I get a discount over retail prices, right? Let's pretend...because I don't actually know what the discount is...but let's pretend that it's 50%. So that $60 a yard stuff costs me $30 a yard. OK, double-width, right? So your eight yard kilt meant that I bought four yards of it.... $120, and we'll just sort of forget the tax and shipping for now, hmmm?

Tartan: $120

Then there are buckles and liner material and hair canvas and thread, we'll say that runs fifteen bucks a kilt.

Other material: $15.

So at any sort of reasonable estimate, paying a living wage in the USA, a custom, mostly hand-sewn wool tartan kilt has GOT to cost a minimum of $535.

OK, instead of paying our kiltmaker a decent wage, let's starve the poor sucker. Let's pay him ten bucks an hour, for a stunning annual income of twenty thousand dollars a year.............Riiiiight.....

Forget the tax, the shipping, the advertising, forget ALL of it....which of course is total fantasy, but we'll play fantasy for now. Ten bucks an hour, $20,000 a year and what does this kilt cost? $335.

....and that, folks, is why custom-made, First-World constructed kilts cost so much.

**********************

Let's make 6-yard kilts out of poly-viscose, and machiine sew them, eh? Can we do that and not starve?

Kiltstore.com sells the Marton Mills poly-viscose for about $20 a yard to retail customers. I bet they sell it "to the trade" for about ten bucks a yard. OK so the tartan in a six-yard kilt made of poly-viscose costs about $30, maybe $40. Let's call it $40, and maybe that covers part of the shipping.

Tartan: $40

Buckles, thread, liner material, etc.: $15

OK, let's pretend our worker can sew up a machine-sewn kilt in a day. That's what Bear used to say...it took him a day to make a kilt. All right, so if he's making that $20/hour, to make a living at $40,000/year that's $160 labor.

Labor: $160

Add it up, and you get $215, which is just about exactly what a USA Kilts semi-traditional kilt costs.

Remember, that's blithely ignoring eighteen million other things that eat time and money:

Rent
Sewing Machine maintenance
taxes
the utility bill
the web site
answering correspondance
ordering material and supplies.etc. etc.

NOBODY IS GETTING RICH, MAKING KILTS.

[Riverkilt]

So true Alan,

As a kilt customer who wants quality goods and quality workmanship and is willing to wait for my turn for my kiltmaker to sew things up I'm happy to pay fair value for my kiltmaker's craftsmanship.

I would guess I've paid around $550 for the custom kilts Kathy Lare has sewn up for me. That includes the fabric, her labor, her doing the work to obtain the fabric, her measuring me and keeping my measurements on hand, her expertise, matching flashes, and shipping.

All I have to do is find the tartan I want, she finds who makes it in what weight, I make the choice and give her half down and she orders the cloth. I don't pay the balance until its done and ready to ship.

If I care for each kilt it'll last twenty years easy...I hope I get twenty more years myself! So the investment I make amounts to about $27.50 a year to have the kilt on hand, ready to wear to whatever event, and look sharp.

If I wear a hand sewn kilt ten times a year - and that's likely since I'm a full time kiltwearer - the cost to me is just $2.75 a wearing. Try to rent a kilt for that amount.

Then there's the intangible, the heritage of hand sewn kilts in my clan tartans that can be passed on to future generations. Hopefully, some of my grandsons and great gransons will follow their family heritage and wear the kilts at least occasionally.

And, from an investment point of view, kilts retain their value far better than most other articles of clothing.

I love hand sewn kilts!

Ron

[sjrapid]

Let's tallk about what it costs to make a kilt. I've done this before, eh, but it's been a while.
...
So at any sort of reasonable estimate, paying a living wage in the USA, a custom, mostly hand-sewn wool tartan kilt has GOT to cost a minimum of $535.
...
NOBODY IS GETTING RICH, MAKING KILTS.

I agree with Alan H's point. I've recently purchased a custom 'tank' as my first kilt (a 9-yard in 16oz Lochcarron Strome in Gunn Modern pleated to the Sett).

My comparison for this purchase was what I'd spend on clothing with a similar level of customisation and craftsmanship - one of my three custom (bespoke, made for me) 2-piece suits, which I wear to work.

Considering the similarities between ordering a bespoke suit and ordering a custom 'tank' kilt:

I get measured exactly so the resulting garment fits me - check
I get to choose the fabric pattern/tartan from thousands of choices- check
I get to specify the weight of the cloth - check
I get to discuss the details with my tailor/kiltmaker and specify them -
Suit: number and position of pockets, vents, lining colour, lapel style, etc. Kilt: number and style of buckles, strap colour and length, pleating style, fringing, etc. - check check
The garment is individually made for me - check
I get a fitting during making-up - check

The result in each case is something beautifully made and long lasting, that makes me feel really good when I wear it.

Now I buy my suits from a small tailor in London. They're computer cut, and machine sewn. As Alan H pointed out, the material cost is far lower than for a kilt. The suit will cost me about £600-700.

I bought my kilt from a small kiltmaker in Aberdeen. The kilt is hand cut and hand-sewn. The kilt costs me £440.

Even allowing for the extra expense of buying expensive material, and what my kiltmaker tells me is 18 hours labour, the custom kilt still looks more than fair value when compared to the cost of a suit.

The thing that drove me to bespoke suits was the fact that they fit well, are beautifully made and have lasted for far longer and look better than the off-the-peg stuff I used to buy. For me, they represent better value. Riverkilt has made the cost-of-ownership over time point very neatly.

I made a similar decision about my first kilt - and I'm hoping that my kilt will be equally long-lasting.

Now please don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to upset anyone who doesn't like or doesn't want or can't justify the expenditure on custom tank kilts. I'm simply trying to shed some additional light on what I see as the comparable quality/customisation/craftsmanship point in the bifurcated clothing market.

All the best

[Robin]

*clap clap clap*

[Cawdorian]

Perhaps I was spoiled early in the kilt game, my first kilt was a custom made 13 oz, 8 yarder, it fits well and looks great. The second kilt was a custom made16 oz, 9 yarder, it also fits well and looks great. Both are high quality pieces of clothing. Buying a kilt off the rack is not an option for me as a kilt 24 inches in length is about 3 inches more kilt than I need.

My kilt wearing is limited to special events, I wear a kilt about 15 times a year. The two kilts I have will most likely last me for the rest of my life, both are in tartans to which I have a personal family connection. Granted they were a substantial monetary investment, but they will last several lifetimes, they are a good value for the money. I enjoy wearing my traditionals, I know I will get many more years of pleasure from them.

[arrogcow]

Now, let's buy the material. Let's pretend that it costs $60 a yard. Now, since I'm running a business, I get a discount over retail prices, right? Let's pretend...because I don't actually know what the discount is...but let's pretend that it's 50%. So that $60 a yard stuff costs me $30 a yard. OK, double-width, right? So your eight yard kilt meant that I bought four yards of it.... $120, and we'll just sort of forget the tax and shipping for now, hmmm?

Tartan: $120

$60/yd is really optimistic. Yes you can get BW and the Stewarts for that, but try and get something else (Aberdeen at the Kilt Store is $103/yd or $88 with the X-marks discount). That takes your cost up to $200 for the material (and I think getting tartan as a kilt maker at 50% is probably optimistic since using your figures you only can make 100 kilts a year and unless they are all the same tartan you are only buying small lots of material). Also many tartans only seem to be available in single width which usually run about 80% of double width in cost.

OK, instead of paying our kiltmaker a decent wage, let's starve the poor sucker. Let's pay him ten bucks an hour, for a stunning annual income of twenty thousand dollars a year.............Riiiiight.....

And yet I suspect that is closer to the truth. I have no problems with the kilt maker making $20+ an hour. My complaint was that the cost of tartan is silly. Why do some tartans cost $50 while others are over $100? Does it really take days to change out a loom? (the answer is no, my mother is learning to weave).

NOBODY IS GETTING RICH, MAKING KILTS.

Yes the mills are.

Adam

[efer]

I may be in the minority here but I like having both made to order and mass- produced kilts....neither of these are "cheap (<$100.00)"

I put UK in the later category because it is not made to my measurements....As far as a cheap kilt goes, I have an ebay special. It's okay but I would not do it again & wish I had waited (saved) for something different.

Many XMarkers have said it before and I strongly agree:
"you get what you pay for."

[Robin]

Keep in mind the £ and € are "strong" and the $ is "weak"

The $ dropped 20%, so "things Scottish" are expensive for people in the USA right now.

And visit a mill when you visit Scotland...see what it takes to weave a good tartan.

When it's that simple to produce cheap quality tartan...there would have been a "LochKarachi" producing it for less as the Scottish mills already.

Never seen a decent curry tartan...

[Colin]

It's all about Quality for me. I have a really nice 8 yard wool kilt that I paid a fair bit for, but than I have a couple really well made PV kilts that I paid a fair bit for as well (all things considered, they were roughly half the cost of the handsewn wool).

The misconception that the Scots are cheap is off base. The Scots are frugal. I was brought up to believe that meant buying the product that was the best value based on price, quality, life span, etc. You get what you pay for. Now I understand that at times money is tight (believe me I understand all to well), but to me, when money is tight, I save up rather than spend what little I have.

I don't see the point in buying 10- $50 or 5-$100 kilts that are poorly made from inferior fabric for a off the rack type fit that will not last very long, when I can pay $500 for 1 really well made garment that will last my life time. Even the PV kilts I own are showing alot of wear and tear in the years I have owned them, but that was why I bought a few "wear to the pub, etc" kilts and one "wear when it's important to me" kilt. I like having the kick around kilts option, but I don't need 10-30 of them in attempt to save the cost of a traditional kilt.

[Blu (Ontario)]

.... I don't see the point in buying 10- $50 or 5-$100 kilts that are poorly made... I like having the kick around kilts option, but I don't need 10-30 of them in attempt to save the cost of a traditional kilt.

I think a low price can be very seductive.

There is also an "instant gratification" factor from purchasing mass produced stock.

And let's not forget the satisfaction of making multiple purchases.

In the end, I guess each of us does what works for us.

.