Navajo Women

[ranchergal8]

Thanks Rancher Girl,
If you've not had a chance yet you might wanna check out my kilt photo gallery.
Hey, with all the Scot sir names on the Rez, Navajos I've met with Scottish ancestors, and towns like Cameron, maybe the Navajo Nation could commission a Navajo Nation tartan....Okay sorry, billaganna thinking... Ron

Yes, I saw the gallery - you're quite the model. Nice kilts and so many patterns, they're pretty cool. Glad to hear that you are around and reading stuff. I think that's what life is about - live it!
On the tartan design, I see some and am quite impressed with the colors. Not a bad idea - design a NN tartan. I find Navajos to be quite receptive to ideas esp. re: design. Well, you never know.

[AtagahiKC]

Ranchergal17 wrote: Hey ya. What's with the "non-Navajo religious beliefs" making assumptions even though you were schooled at ASU. What do you know about traditional Navajo cultural mores? Also keeping your ears closed makes conversations limited. So does that mean if your family members speaks with you - you don't listen? The original poster / forum are good folks keeping the connections. Where do you get off at telling people what to do?

What assumptions? I know many Navajo who were members of Christian and even Fundamentalist churches. That is what I meant by "non-Navajo religious beliefs", as opposed to Navajo religious beliefs.

If you read my post carefully, my point was that one doesn't know from what perspective the woman was making her comment. It could be traditional Navajo beliefs causing the discomfort or it could have been Christian beliefs causing the discomfort. Either way, it really didn't matter.

I was not implying that I know Navajo beliefs - simply that one doesn't have to know them nor does one have to take the criticism to heart. It just is not important if one is passing through. In other words, she did not have standing to correct him as he was not from her tribe. Her influence did not extend to him.

If one is trying to forge a relationship with Navajos, then by all means, take the criticism to heart and ask questions to learn. But this woman did not know Riverkilt nor did he know her.

If someone is moved to comment to a stranger in a diner who is not from around the area and try to force her mores on that person, then I do not believe that is appropriate nor courteous behavior. Had he been flashing someone, then it would have been appropriate to say something. But that was not the case, here.

As for listening to my family, of course I do. My family and clan care about me and understand me. They have the privilege of criticising me and I listen. Likewise, my close friends. But the privilege is something that should not be handed out lightly. So I keep it for only those who I trust and care about. However, including that made for a long post. I was trying to be succinct.

While I do not pretend to know Navajo beliefs, I do know Cherokee teachings about how to treat other human beings. We should not expect any person to act a certain way. If we are disappointed in the actions of another, we have to realize that the person is simply being who that person is. The disappointment comes from our unrealistic expectations of the other person, so the correction must come from within, not from without. Besides, if we have taken our eyes from our path to criticize what someone else is doing, we've just strayed off the path and away from Grandfather.

As for keeping my ears closed, if a stranger criticizes me, it is my choice as to how it affects me and how I will react. So yes, in that situation I will not listen to the person. It is very rare that such rudeness is going to turn into a wonderful friendship. It would be wrong of me to expect that person to ever be anything but rude. Why fill my life with rude and offensive people? It will only distract me from my path.

Finally, as for "telling other people what to do", I don't think that I told anyone what to do. Without adequate knowledge of a culture and its mores, it is a bad idea to take one conversation and extrapolate that into an official policy of an entire culture.

Even from a practical standpoint, was what she did the best way to have handled it? What if the person would have been from Scotland? Would she have wanted them to think that all Navajo were so rude? We both know that people form erroneous impressions of our cultures based on bad experiences.

You may be good people. I don't know you. But I would ask that instead of judging me from one posting, that you take the time to get to know me before passing judgment on me.

We are both Aniyunwiya. It should have been a common bond, not a source of prejudice and judgment. And even though you didn't ask, my people are from Big Cabin, Vinita and Pumpkin Holler.

[Mike1]

For the second time, let's move this one back to the subject of wearing kilts, else we're going to lock it down and remove it.

Some of the side discussion is proving to be very interesting, but it really has no place here.

[AtagahiKC]

I respectfully disagree. This post is about negotiating the difficult terrain of wearing a kilt and how to handle the reactions of another culture. Just because it contains information about Navajo culture and other Indian cultures doesn't make it any less pertinent or useful than discussing how to negotiate reactions from any other culture. The principles are the same, even if the cultures are different from Western paradigms.

While Ranchergal8 and I are having an "intertribal disagreement", we will be fine. I have no problem continuing that discussion by email, should she wish to do so. My email is atagahikc@yahoo.com.

[Tim Walker]

How does a kilted man appear to members of other cultures? Is there a pattern to the reactions?

[Tim Walker]

The best label for the Navajo garments would be the Navajos' own term.

[Rigged]

I'm wondering if it's something as simple as a woman asking someone wearing a "skirt" to sit the way a lady would sit if she were wearing one.

It's hard to get inside someone else's head, so maybe it's best to assume good intentions in the absence of other evidence.

Most people know very little about kilts and have only their own experience to draw from. That experience is women and girls wearing skirts and dresses. Just like guys who think they're supposed to shave their legs when they wear a kilt because [most] women shave their legs when they wear skirts, many people don't know how a man is supposed to wear a kilt.

Many of us didn't know before we came here.

[Tim Walker]

I seem to recall a post about some women who tried on kilts...and were surprised that they could sit with their knees apart without exposing themselve. Perhaps the Navajo woman didn't know this.

[The Wizard of BC]

Bringing this thread back to kilts directly while still dealing with inter-cultural misunderstandings --- Has anyone else had an experience bumping against another culture?

Here in the Pacific NW the indiginious cultures are so diverse that my kilt wearing is not an issue. (I wear 1st peoples art as kilt pins as well as kokopelli and get more comments on them than on the kilt.)

I do however run into people from E. Asia who voice opinions that range from admiration for my respect for my ancestors to outright disgust for being blatently outside of my own cultural norm. And then there is "Gung Haggis Fat Choy" A combined Robbie Burns/Chinese New Year celebration for those of Chinese/Scots ancestry.

And there was this one time on the ferry when I was berated for over a half hour by a Parisian named Paul McGinty, in a very thick French accent, who thought I should be made to stay in my car and not allowed to pollute his heterosexual world.

K'serra, serra says I.

Anyone have another story?

[ranchergal8]

Bringing this thread back to kilts directly while still dealing with inter-cultural misunderstandings --- Has anyone else had an experience bumping against another culture?
Here in the Pacific NW the indiginious cultures are so diverse that my kilt wearing is not an issue. I do however run into people from E. Asia who voice opinions ...
.. by a Parisian named Paul McGinty, in a very thick French accent, who thought I should be made to stay in my car and not allowed to pollute his heterosexual world.

I think it's great that you guys are wearing kilts. Here it is 2007 and I'm sure that the peoples (scottish, et al) maybe wondered (after many centuries) if wearing it would still last? Kudos to you. Yes, indigenious cultures may / can incorporate some clothing into everyday life. On the westside here, there is a orthodox population that have no qualms IDing their ways. Wanted to say thanks to the book recommendations which I will go look up on the scottish ones and also the Elijah book that original poster put up (re: that subject- there's going to be more material published and also films on that sorry subject).
As to the other non related stuff - I don't have that kind of time.