Sure, they say this NOW...

**Gaisgeil** · 2nd February 07, 06:53 AM

I don't think the bloodcurdling thing was supposed to mean they sounded bad, just... exotic. If you ever see footage of Scottish troops in formation marching or charging under the sound of the pipes you can see what they're talking about. For some reason, it's intimidating in much the same way as if you or I were in the jungle and starting hearing native drums like in the movies or something, it's probably a combination of the fact you're already in a war, so you're constantly on edge and you're confronted with something you don't understand, that's a recipe for fear! Besides, the pipes for some reason just invoke emotion, whether it's pride, fear or tranquility (think funeral pipes) people (and some animals! just ask any piper who's played outside) respond to the pipes.

**Splash_4** · 2nd February 07, 06:57 AM

Actually, even to some people today, the sound of the pipes is enough to make them head the other way. I recall an episode of "Monarch of the Glen" where a guy was playing the pipes and his fiancee asked him to stop torturing that poor animal... Nearly busted a gut on that one.

**macwilkin** · 2nd February 07, 07:11 AM

I see nothing wrong with the term (now we're splitting hairs) -- after all, the pipes, much the bayonet, is a psychological weapon. There's a great line in the 1950's version of The Buccaneer, with Yul Brenner as the pirate Jean Lafitte and Charleton Heston as Andrew Jackson where a young American soldier on the line at Chalmette says to Jackson about the pipers of the 93rd, "They send cold chills down my spine" (or something similar) -- Jackson/Heston replies, "That's what they're supposed to do."

A similar legend exists about the "happy warriors" of Nepal -- the Gurkhas. Legends abound of Gurkhas not being able to draw their kukhris without cutting their finger and "shedding blood" -- yet Scott Gilmore, an American who served as an officer in the 8th Gurkha Rifles (his memoir of the Burma campaign in WWII is a smashing read!) claims that this is a myth -- yet the legend remains to this day. What was it that the newspaper reporter said in The man who shot Liberty Valance -- "when fact becomes legend, print the legend."

I pulled out my copy of Bryon Farwell's Mr. Kipling's Army last night, which is an excellent social history of the Victorian-era British Army. Farwell dives into regimental customs, traditions, attitudes and prejudices -- statements like "The Ladies from Hell" or even "Devil Dogs", the nickname that Jerry reportedly gave to the US Marines(this has also recently been challenged by German historians) are quite common in military circles, even amongst your own forces. For instance, Farwell discusses regimental "feuds", and quotes Robert Graves' autobiographical account of his service in WWI with the Royal Welch (yes, that is the correct spelling -- read the book!) Fusiliers. Graves quotes a fellow Royal Welch Officer who condescendingly spoke of Scots Regiments, "trousered and bare-a**sed variety", who fought too much, drank too much, and charged too much -- in both directions!" The old Highland Light Infantry -- which served in numerous battles & campaigns and had a list of battle honours a mile long -- was looked down upon with disdain by other Scottish Regiments because they were not really "Highlanders", but "Glesca Keelies" -- A "keelie" is Glasgow slang is someone who starts a fight for a social evening.

Military folklore is just like any other folklore -- there is truth embedded somewhere in the mists of antiquity -- and while I, as a historian by trade, do seek "historical truth", sometimes, I just enjoy, to paraphrase Teddy Roosevelt, "a good story".

The fact is, the Scottish Regiments of the British Commonwealth will always be "The Ladies from Hell", no matter what this German historian says. He'll be long forgotten while the regiments live on in military history.

Regards,

Todd

**Warhoover** · 2nd February 07, 07:13 AM

Splash, yes some are squeemish when it comes te "wrasslin' with a Scottish Octopus"! Either you like them or you don't. From talking to some I don't think there is much of an "in between".

Todd, The Buccaneer is one of my favorites of all time. I remember that scene very well. I too don't take offense at the "Bloodcurdling" description. As you pointed out Jackson/Heston's line, "It's what they're supposed to do". I have not read Bryon Farwell's Mr. Kipling's Army yet, thanks for mentioning it. It is definately something to put on my list to obtain now.

**macwilkin** · 2nd February 07, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Warhoover

Splash, yes some are squeemish when it comes te "wrasslin' with a Scottish Octopus"! Either you like them or you don't. From talking to some I don't think there is much of an "in between".

Todd, The Buccaneer is one of my favorites of all time. I remember that scene very well. I too don't take offense at the "Bloodcurdling" description. As you pointed out Jackson/Heston's line, "It's what they're supposed to do". I have not read Bryon Farwell's Mr. Kipling's Army yet, thanks for mentioning it. It is definately something to put on my list to obtain now.

Of course, the big thing The Buccaneer got wrong was putting the 93rd in kilts; they were actually wearing trews.

T.

**IEScotsman** · 2nd February 07, 08:10 AM

Okay, the knowledgeable majority wins. It would seem that my understanding of "bloodcurdling" is slightly off from the actual definition. Turns out....

Bloodcurdling:
arousing terror; horrifying: a bloodcurdling scream.

I always thought it meant something akin to disgusting. Like 4-year-old milk.