Jackets--North of St.Andrews sale

**Nanook** · 24th February 07, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Chef

Well while it isn't always true, presume that you can't make a jacket bigger but you can make it smaller.

Jackets can be made larger and can be made smaller.

Originally Posted by RockyR

If you're a "normal build", then you (in my experience) should order a size up. If you normally wear a 42 Reg in a suit jacket size (and it fits fine in the body and shoulders), order a 44 Reg in Kilt Jacket from the UK.

If you are a 42Reg then I'd order a 42Reg. English sizes and U.S. sizes are the same. Italian too. If you have a large gut and 40"-41" chest then many Italian and English 42s won't fit. Many American made jackets (such as those from Oxxford) won't either. Going to a 44 is not the solution. Going to a tailor and looking to either made to measure or bespoke is the solution. A good tailor can tweak a ready to wear jacket to make it fit as if made to measure--- why some RTW jackets such as those from Brioni, Kiton or Oxxford are more highly regarded by top-tier tailors than many a bespoke--- but only if its a ballpark fit. I'd look to the fit of the chest, the waist and especially the sleeves.

**sjrapid** · 24th February 07, 02:42 PM

For the benefit of any XMarker who (like me) has just spent a frustrating 5 minutes trying to find this seller on Ebay here is a link: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/northofstandrews-co-uk

Best regards

**RockyR** · 24th February 07, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Nanook

If you are a 42Reg then I'd order a 42Reg. English sizes and U.S. sizes are the same. Italian too. If you have a large gut and 40"-41" chest then many Italian and English 42s won't fit. Many American made jackets (such as those from Oxxford) won't either. Going to a 44 is not the solution. Going to a tailor and looking to either made to measure or bespoke is the solution. A good tailor can tweak a ready to wear jacket to make it fit as if made to measure--- why some RTW jackets such as those from Brioni, Kiton or Oxxford are more highly regarded by top-tier tailors than many a bespoke--- but only if its a ballpark fit. I'd look to the fit of the chest, the waist and especially the sleeves.

I'm only speaking from my experience with the 3 different places we order jackets from over in Scotland. I've ordered for people that insist they are a 42 in their jacket and it's arrived and is much more "snug" than they'd prefer. I'm a 42 suit jacket (when I WORE a suit) and I'm a 44 kilt jacket.

I do agree that the only way to get a perfect fit is to get it MTM (made to measure) or get an "off the peg" jacket tweaked by a tailor. Either way, that would be more expensive than ordering a jacket just "off the peg".

**Bob C** · 24th February 07, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Nanook

Jackets can be made larger and can be made smaller.

If you are a 42Reg then I'd order a 42Reg. English sizes and U.S. sizes are the same. Italian too. If you have a large gut and 40"-41" chest then many Italian and English 42s won't fit. Many American made jackets (such as those from Oxxford) won't either. Going to a 44 is not the solution. Going to a tailor and looking to either made to measure or bespoke is the solution. A good tailor can tweak a ready to wear jacket to make it fit as if made to measure--- why some RTW jackets such as those from Brioni, Kiton or Oxxford are more highly regarded by top-tier tailors than many a bespoke--- but only if its a ballpark fit. I'd look to the fit of the chest, the waist and especially the sleeves.

Nonsense. Order the 44. I ran into the same problem. The 42, which is what all my American-made suits are, was too small. The 44 fits perfectly.

**Splash_4** · 24th February 07, 03:33 PM

Well, this was a nice idea. Unfortunately, they do not carry mens sizes

**Chef** · 24th February 07, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Nanook

Jackets can be made larger and can be made smaller.

Most of the time I would agree with you, but it is limited by the amount of "excess" material. Less expensive garments in particular may not have the necessary material to make the adjustments you need. It is usually is only a good idea to buy a garment you need to make larger if you can try it on before you buy it and assess whether or not the adjustments can be done. I personally wouldn't buy something that needs to be shipped to me assuming that I can make it larger.

Originally Posted by Nanook

If you are a 42Reg then I'd order a 42Reg. English sizes and U.S. sizes are the same. Italian too.

Actually as some one who's wardrobe is bought half in the US and half in the UK I will respectfully disagree with you on this point. Vanity sizing is, I believe, much more prevalent in the US than it is elsewhere. True Italian sizes are metric so I can't compare them so I'll stick with the US and UK.

You are absolutely right about the waist sizes being larger on US jackets but that isn't the reason UK sizes don't fit the same on me (I always need to have the waist taken in on US jackets and usually on UK jackets). To fit across my chest and back I take a 42 - 44 in the US and a 44 - 46 in the UK. My actual measurement is about 44 1/2.

I think this is the vanity sizing that there has been many articles on over the last decade. As an example I'll bet that almost everyone on this forum (who still occasionally wears pants) buys pants that is sized at least 2" less than their actual waist size (assuming they have actually measured their waist lately).

As far as British or Italian makes being brought to the US and sold here I don't think they can be used for comparison since they are labeled for the US market.

**auld argonian** · 25th February 07, 09:51 AM

Oh well....my offer was declined (guess thses jackets weren't so "shopworn" after all, eh?) so the point is now moot. With all the doubts about the sizing, I consider it something of a narrow escape.

Still, I guess that I don't get the whole thing about these sizes...if you measure your chest and it's 42 inches, what does that mean? Granted that there's long, regular and short tagged onto that 42 and you would choose the one that fit...and a tailor could fine tune the thing for you...but who's lying about the sizes and to what exact end? US sizes aren't accurate which way...up or down? Is this to make smaller guys feel bigger or big guys feel smaller? The waist thing I can understand....if that number gets larger as you age then you're gaining weight and nobody wants that...but why jigger with the jacket sizes? Why isn't a 42 a 42 in whatever country that it's sold in and if it isn't then it's marked incorrectly and somebody is...well, basically...bullsh*tting you?

Best

AA

**RockyR** · 25th February 07, 09:55 AM

Another "Hard and fast" rule to measure... The way that "After Hours" (a tux rental place) sizes you is like this:

take the chest measurement at the widest part of the chest and add 2". Write that # down.

Take the measurement around the chest AND ARMS at the same spot (the widest point) and subtract 6". Write that # down.

Those numbers should be BASICALLY the same thing. If they're not, take the bigger of the 2 numbers and that's your jacket size.

Is it custom or tailored? No. Is it going to be pretty much accurate (for your AMERICAN Tux size) Yes. For a Kilt Jacket, I'd sugest the +4 / -4 method as opposed to the +2 / -6 method.

**Fearnest** · 25th February 07, 09:58 AM

BRILLIANT!!!

Thanks, Rocky - that makes absolutely NO sense to me (but works).

**Nanook** · 25th February 07, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by auld argonian

Okay...not to belabor the point, but if your chest actually measures 41 and a 40 is too snug

If its "too snug". Really depends upon the tailor, resp. designer.

and while a 42 fits the shoulders always seem to look a little too "Clark Kent-y" (for those who remember the old Superman TV series from the fifties)...where would that put me?

Go visit a good tailor. Get the 42 and have the tailor pull it in. Its not much work (so should not be too expensive) to pull in it for a perfect fit.
If you were, however, serious with the "Clark Kent" I'd gather that you are short and probably in want of a bit lighter a jacket with less padding. Find a good men's shop with a good tailor and let the tailor help you work out your fit. Finding a good tailor, I do realize, is like finding a needle in a haystack but you will be apt to find them at some of the better shops selling not just brands like Oxxford, Regent, Brioni or Kiton but also Chester Barrie (not quite the stuff of 'ol which was clearly of the first league but I hear not bad either), Windsor, Canali, Ermenegildo Zegna, and a host of other good makers that don't glue their suits together. Shops with relatively expensive ready-to-wear suits (in the beyond $1000 USD class) tend to have call to find some good tailors to keep in business as their customers don't want to spend 1000s of dollars to look like "schleps".