Kiltmakers in Edinburgh, questions . . .

[Chef]

Firstly, Chef mentions 'John Morrison'. Well, John Morrison was a good kiltmaker but he was bought out by the notorious Gold Brothers who own about six tourist-trap shops on and around The Royal Mile - they have retained his name over the shop-front, however. I personally would not patronise them - but that's just me!
Chef also says that he doubts that the three kiltmakers he lists employ "artisans" and that their kilts are hand-sewn on an "assembly line"! OK, perhaps he knows a lot more than I do about this, but I can vouch for the Geoffrey (Tailor) Ltd. set-up.

Excellent Hamish,

I have not dealt with John Morrison in a while and I was unaware of the new ownership. I definitely retract my suggestion of any shop owned by the Gold Brothers.

As far as the kilt assembly line, many kiltmakers, including Geoffrey (Tailor) were part of a couple of articles I read a few years ago about the new way even traditional kilts were made and how they were using more assembly line manufacturing and less artisans. Using journeyman kiltmakers to oversee task specific workers. The articles I read did not go into specifics about how much each maker was using the system only that they were. So, I am pleased to learn that Geoffrey Tailor is not using that much of it.

I don't necessarily think that the assembly line production of traditional kilts is bad, I have had kilts that were made that way and they are of good quality. I have also bought a kilts from GT and I was very pleased with them. My main point about artisans vs. assembly line (and I should have made it better) was that I prefer to support the art of kilt making.

[Hamish]

Excellent Hamish,

I have not dealt with John Morrison in a while and I was unaware of the new ownership. I definitely retract my suggestion of any shop owned by the Gold Brothers.

The 'John Morrison' website looks impressive, but just click on "More Stores" and you'll see where I am coming from!

I don't necessarily think that the assembly line production of traditional kilts is bad, I have had kilts that were made that way and they are of good quality. I have also bought a kilts from GT and I was very pleased with them. My main point about artisans vs. assembly line (and I should have made it better) was that I prefer to support the art of kilt making.

Me too, Chef. Me too when it comes to true traditionals. However, I am quite happy to go along with assembly line proceedures where contemporary and casuals are concerned - if need be!

[McClef]

Mt first choice would be:

Geoffrey (Tailor) Ltd.,
57/59 High Street,
The Royal Mile,
Edinburgh (www.geoffreykilts.co.uk)

and, if you are looking for something a little more contemporary:

'21st Century Kilts' at the same address (www.21stcenturykilts.co.uk)

McClef recommends The Celtic Craft Centre. I do not personally know their kilts but I have visited their shop in Paisley Close off The Royal Mile on many occasions, where they sell only the highest quality accessories. I understand that this Company is, or was, American owned. Their HQ was at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco for many years, but that address is no longer listed and they now show one in Palm Springs CA, which I visited last October and which did not impress me at all!

I regret that I cannot comment on the Palm Springs shop so must defer to your experience there Hamish. But I am surprised that you only saw accessories at the Paisley Close shop as when I was there they had several kilts hung up and awaiting collection by customers in the back room in the shop and they were able to demonstrate the care they take with the fell and the triple selvedge fringe on the apron. Got very technical!

I further regret that my experience as a potential customer at Geoffrey (Tailor) has not been encouraging. Upon neither of my visits has 21st Century Kilts been open and although there is a sign stating access via the shop I could find no such access within. Further, no member of the staff in the shop appeared interested in me as a potential customer and approach me to enquire if I required assistance, they appeared to be too busy chatting amongst themselves. Not even a nod, smile or "Good Afternoon." Despite the fact that I was kilted too! I found that rather off-putting to say the least. It's not as if they were busy or crowded out either. I have no doubt that they have an excellent product or you would not have used them so often, but a certain excellence in greeting people who enter the shop and of volunteering their assistance would not be a bad idea. No matter what one thinks of Gold Bros, I would venture to suggest that how they treat potential customers is better.

A better customer experience too from the Celtic Craft Centre, and Hector Russell. Maybe I'm being too old-fashioned but the idea of you having to court the staff rather than the other way around is still a difficult one for me to handle.

[irishrob]

I have dealt with Celtic Craft Center in both San Francisco and Palm Springs, not in Edinburgh...but if the folks in Scotland are anywhere as helpful as the folks in Palm Springs you will completely satisfied.

Rob

[unkaholic]

also keep in mind that if you purchase a kilt in scotland you will have to pay the VAT tax upon purchase. if you live outside the EC you can file for a refund, but it's a hassle that you don't have to deal with if you buy before you go (if you do live in the EC you're screwed and will have to pay it regardless).

[RockyR]

On the Royal Mile...

Check out Graham Muir at "The Tartan Gift Shop" (54 High Street)

info@tartan-kilts.org

His website isn't that great, but visit the man in person... he's "a kick in the pants".

[Hamish]

I regret that I cannot comment on the Palm Springs shop so must defer to your experience there Hamish. But I am surprised that you only saw accessories at the Paisley Close shop as when I was there they had several kilts hung up and awaiting collection by customers in the back room in the shop and they were able to demonstrate the care they take with the fell and the triple selvedge fringe on the apron. Got very technical!

Trefor,
I am afraid I did not express myself at all well here! What I intended to convey was that the only accessories I saw were of the highest quality - in other words: no cheap rubbish was being sold at The Celtic Craft Centre! There was, I think, a kilt-wearing mannequin on or near the stairs but I do not recall seeing anything much more of yer actual kilts on view there. However, you have visited more recently than I, and so it is my turn, Trefor, to defer to your experience there.

I further regret that my experience as a potential customer at Geoffrey (Tailor) has not been encouraging. Upon neither of my visits has 21st Century Kilts been open and although there is a sign stating access via the shop I could find no such access within. Further, no member of the staff in the shop appeared interested in me as a potential customer and approach me to enquire if I required assistance, they appeared to be too busy chatting amongst themselves. Not even a nod, smile or "Good Afternoon." Despite the fact that I was kilted too! I found that rather off-putting to say the least. It's not as if they were busy or crowded out either. I have no doubt that they have an excellent product or you would not have used them so often, but a certain excellence in greeting people who enter the shop and of volunteering their assistance would not be a bad idea. No matter what one thinks of Gold Bros, I would venture to suggest that how they treat potential customers is better.

A better customer experience too from the Celtic Craft Centre, and Hector Russell. Maybe I'm being too old-fashioned but the idea of you having to court the staff rather than the other way around is still a difficult one for me to handle.

I have to confess that I am truly shocked by this report of your experiences at Geoffrey (Tailor) and TFCK, and I intend to print your words and show them to Howie Nicholsby when I meet with him in London on Saturday. Might I ask, Trefor, did this occur on your recent visit to Edinburgh, or was it a while back? Whilst I do know some of the sales staff personally, I do not know them all and nor do they all know me but whenever I have called in at the High Street shop, I have never had to wait for assistance - unless they have all been busy. Let us see what Howie has to say to all of this.

[Caradoc]

Another one one worth mentioning is the Celtic Craft Centre.

They were heavily recommended to me by local Edinburgh people.

http://www.celticcraftcentre.com/

My "wedding kilt" in Weathered Lochaber was made by the folks at the Celtic Craft Centre.



There are several things I really like about their work...

1) They guarantee no "pleat kicking" on their kilts. The first pleat to the left of the apron is tailored to avoid that.

2) They only put two straps (one left, one right) on their regular kilts. I prefer this to the more common three-strap kilts.

3) They offer a lifetime fit guarantee on their work - you pay for shipping, they fix the kilt to fit you again. This is nice, since I've lost nine inches on my waistline, and the kilt is currently with them getting "fixed." I should have it back in a month or so.

I can't recommend them enough.

[McClef]

Trefor,
I am afraid I did not express myself at all well here! What I intended to convey was that the only accessories I saw were of the highest quality - in other words: no cheap rubbish was being sold at The Celtic Craft Centre! There was, I think, a kilt-wearing mannequin on or near the stairs but I do not recall seeing anything much more of yer actual kilts on view there. However, you have visited more recently than I, and so it is my turn, Trefor, to defer to your experience there.

It could be the layout of the shop Hamish as the accessories are what you see when you first enter and you have to go through an archway into the back room where all the kilts are. It's also where they keep their books of swatches. It's a more olde worlde type of shop and easy to miss in the first place as they only have a street sign on the High St when they are open.

I have to confess that I am truly shocked by this report of your experiences at Geoffrey (Tailor) and TFCK, and I intend to print your words and show them to Howie Nicholsby when I meet with him in London on Saturday. Might I ask, Trefor, did this occur on your recent visit to Edinburgh, or was it a while back? Whilst I do know some of the sales staff personally, I do not know them all and nor do they all know me but whenever I have called in at the High Street shop, I have never had to wait for assistance - unless they have all been busy. Let us see what Howie has to say to all of this.

If they had been busy it would have been understandable. As I said the same thing happened in October last year and the second occasion was Monday 19th February. On neither occasion was Howie present. I have no wish to make trouble but can only speak as I found and it has happened twice. Is it purely my experience or might others have found the same? Andrew wasn't impressed either. You might not know all the staff personally Hamish but being the legend you are I am darned sure they know what you look like and that you know Howie. If I had been approached and asked if I required assistance I would have mentioned your recommendation of their establishment!

But it can't make good commercial sense to lose a potential sale by not asking a simple question and giving a friendly greeting. I would hope they didn't make assumptions that I couldn't need anything more as I was dressed in my 8 yard Cornish National and wearing a Lovatt Green jacket and a Balmoral. But every other shop we went in, quality or otherwise, brought a greeting and an offer of assistance. I shall of course visit again and see what happens on a third occasion.

My "wedding kilt" in Weathered Lochaber was made by the folks at the Celtic Craft Centre.



There are several things I really like about their work...

1) They guarantee no "pleat kicking" on their kilts. The first pleat to the left of the apron is tailored to avoid that.

2) They only put two straps (one left, one right) on their regular kilts. I prefer this to the more common three-strap kilts.

3) They offer a lifetime fit guarantee on their work - you pay for shipping, they fix the kilt to fit you again. This is nice, since I've lost nine inches on my waistline, and the kilt is currently with them getting "fixed." I should have it back in a month or so.

I can't recommend them enough.

Well as to 2) they stated at time of ordering that I had the option of two or three straps and even if I wanted belt loops or not and I opted for my preference of three with the loops and all at no extra charge.

Yes I forget to mention what you cover at 3) Caradoc. I haven't heard such a guarantee mentioned in any other establishment!

[hylander]

Another option I came across, I have emailed them twice in 2 days an no response. has anyone bought from them before?

Thanks again for all the wonderful advice!

Cheers,

Kerry