i now join the ranks of RiverKilt

[Riverkilt]

Maybe all this is a sign of the success of the current kilt boom.

Sounds like the usual power and control to me...her fear of what her superiors might say for "allowing" it.

I put together a package of history, culture, current fashion, equal choices for both genders...got back a terse email that none of that mattered.

What turned the tide was that she feared (rightly) she might lose me, and I helped her land a new contract that she was incapable of doing herself simply by the luck of having common business friends with the prospect.

And, maybe reminding her of women's fight to wear pants in the office. Shouldn't men have the same choice women have? Bifurcated or unbifurcated?

If she's never seen you kilted, maybe a photo or three of you kilted.

And, as mentioned, attending company social functions kilted. Can't hurt to look for any upper management with Celtic names.

Remember, at her core she's afraid of losing her job and her paycheck for making a wrong decision. If you can find a way to show her the wrong decision is denial - in violation of your cultural heritage...its not good form to outlaw kilts and tartans today as the English did way back when.

Meantime, if you're not already sporting tartan neckties...

Would trews anger her?

Its an individual deal until we get the fear and insanity overcome.

Only advice is do your best to stay educational and don't go adversarial.

Ron

[GreenDragon]

do you still have the package of information on file?

[ckelly327]

I would definitely try to show her pictures today or if you can get on xmarks from work then show her the "Show us Your Pics" thread with the dressy pics or some of the nicer casual pictures. Let her know that kilts are not obscene or disruptive. They are a man's garment that help you stay in touch with your Celtic heritage. And don't worry about the other guys razzing you - the ones that I get the worst comments from are friends who don't wear kilts (I think they are just jealous).

[GreenDragon]

was NEVER worried about the other guys (at work or my friends at home) razzing me. that's just guys being guys.

[Rampant Lion]

the company dress code is "business casual". i've spoken to HR reps and they say a kilt is fine by the dress code but it;s up to the manager.

Wow, that sounds totally contradictory to me. HR is saying that wearing a kilt meets the dress code, but then they go on to say it's up to your manager. What's the point of having a dress code then? I think you have two options.

1. Where your kilt; if your manager has a problem with it you can tell her that you spoke to HR are they said it met the dress code. However, if she then takes up the situation with HR the fact that they told you it's up to your manager might come up.

2. Try to convince your manager. Tell her you spoke with HR and that they said a kilt meets the dress code.

I might also make some points saying that you only wish to wear the kilt for a specific day or a few specific days throughout the year, but since a kilt meets the dress code you just might decide to wear it everyday. Comprimise.

-Will

[GreenDragon]

this is from our HR site:

BUSINESS ATTIRE POLICY

Company employees are expected to dress in a manner that is appropriate for the business to be conducted each day. Depending on the nature of the day’s work, it may be appropriate to wear more traditional, formal business attire. On other days, business casual attire might be suitable. Each employee has the responsibility to decide what is appropriate each day, taking into consideration the nature of the work and what the manager thinks is appropriate.

While there is not a specific dress code or rulebook, common sense and professionalism require that all clothes be cleaned and pressed, in good repair and properly fitted. Dressing professionally shows respect for your co-workers and your work and means that attire does not become a distraction to getting the work done.

All questions about what may or may not be appropriate are to be discussed with the manager of the business unit. If a manager has a question about the policy, please contact Carol Newbold in Human Resources.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q. How do I know what is appropriate dress if there are no specific guidelines? Can I wear jeans and tennis shoes?

A. While jeans and tennis shoes are certainly acceptable weekend casual clothes, they typically do not convey a professional business image and thus would not be appropriate to wear in most business situations.

Q. Who decides whether my clothes are appropriate? How is it reinforced?

A. Employees are expected to dress in a way that reflects a professional image and is appropriate for the business they will do that day. When deciding what to wear to work each day, employees are to consider the work that is to be done and what the manager has communicated to the employees about what business appropriate attire means to him or her. Managers will have different opinions based on the work that is done in that area.

In the rare situations when inappropriate attire is worn, each employee's manager is expected to address the issue just as the manager would any other type of inappropriate behavior or conduct in the work area.

Q. Will it be seen as a performance issue if I wear clothes that are too casual (something I thought was appropriate, but my manager does not)?

A. If your manager has an issue with your attire, it should be dealt with quickly, honestly and openly to help clarify what business appropriate attire might look like for the work you do. This should not be seen as a long-term performance issue unless it happens repeatedly despite getting advice and counsel.

Q. What should be worn if I am attending a meeting with other employees who will be wearing more formal business attire or if I am meeting with people from outside the company?

A. You should dress appropriately for the day's work. If you have meetings with customers and other outside people who dress more formally, you should dress in business formal as well.

Q. Why is the policy changing?

A. For most groups and employees, this is not a change. The previous policy provided guidelines. While somewhat helpful, guidelines cannot address all situations. This policy is easily applied to all employees regardless of the work to be done.

[Riverkilt]

Well,you might ask your manager to imagine it is 1963 and you are a female wishing to wear pants to this office. Would she allow her female employee to wear pants to the office?

It ain't no easy road....think it helps too to present current information on the kilt boom happening around the world today. That you're not some weirdo fetish person, but that you've found and embraced the common sense of fashion comfort for men.

Like women bringing pants to the office, there will be more and more men in kilts. Corporations can delay, but they can't win in the long run. Why not show equality, and progressiveness now.

Amazing how many customers are impressed by a corporation who offers their employees the freedom to work kilted.

Ron

[turpin]

Wear it to work anyway. If you are told that you cannae wear that, well then. Don't rock the boat, just take it off.

Quick! Run out and buy a pair of green boxers. Better yet, a green thing that says "Kiss me, I'm Irish".

[ardchoille]

I wonder what the point is of a casual day if management can still dictate some kind of dress code.

Indeed. Who's definition of "casual" is used here and how do they know which definition it is?

[Hachiman]

this is from our HR site:

BUSINESS ATTIRE POLICY

**snip**Each employee has the responsibility to decide what is appropriate each day, taking into consideration the nature of the work and what the manager thinks is appropriate.

**snip** Dressing professionally shows respect for your co-workers and your work and means that attire does not become a distraction to getting the work done.

I doubt many of us would deny that a kilt, for all that we love it, can be a distraction. Anyone who can almost drive into a streetlamp when watching a guy in a kilt could be said to be distracted!!

All GreenDragon's manager has to do is state that she believes the kilt would be a distracting influence in the workplace and she would be backed up by the workplace dress code. Bang! Your arguement would be dead in the water...

I'm really sorry, mate, but I suspect the only way you're going to get a kilt at work is either a) win her over to your side, or b) find a kilt-friendly work environment.

Either way, good luck!!

Hachiman