kilt lifters

[Nerts]

If I may relate a story it may help some others understand an "Official" opinion of Kilt lifting.

Setting
A Vancouver BC pub. The evening is getting on and those who have had a few are feeling no pain.

Three gentlemen are standing at the bar conversing amongst themselves when a very attractive lady in her '20's, who obviously has had a few, approaches each man in turn and ask politely, and in what seems a joking manner, if she can lift their kilt and check if "it's" true.
Each man tells the girl NO!
When she makes it to the third man she is getting a little miffed that no one will allow her to look so she starts to laugh and playingly persisting.
She has asked the third man once and his answer was NO!.
She asks a second time and reaches down for his apron. He politely pushes her hand away and says, "Excuse me, I asked you not to do that."
She is now getting angry at the refusals to her coy request so quickly reaches down and lifts the man's apron.

As the lady's hands come up the man reaches behind to his belt and pulls out his handcuffs.

The off-duty officer then calls a squad car. The lady is arrested. She is now a convicted sex offender and must register where ever she lives.

No one, and I mean NO ONE BUT MY WIFE has the right to assault me.

You may be cute. You may be coy. You may even be a former friend.
Anyone attempting to lift a womans skirt Will be arrested for assault. Fact.
If you attempt to lift my kilt I will try my best to see you suffer the same fate.

Awesome! Simply awesome!

E.

[Nervous Jock]

Three gentlemen are standing at the bar conversing amongst themselves when a very attractive lady in her '20's, who obviously has had a few, approaches each man in turn and ask politely, and in what seems a joking manner, if she can lift their kilt and check if "it's" true.
Each man tells the girl NO!
When she makes it to the third man she is getting a little miffed that no one will allow her to look so she starts to laugh and playingly persisting.
She has asked the third man once and his answer was NO!.
She asks a second time and reaches down for his apron. He politely pushes her hand away and says, "Excuse me, I asked you not to do that."
She is now getting angry at the refusals to her coy request so quickly reaches down and lifts the man's apron.

I would be interested to know if the woman in this story was with friends. In similar circumstances, less tour sacrifice, we would have gone over to them and told them to take her away.

[The Supreme Canuck]

TSC,
You'll be glad to know that I chose "Why men in kilts aren't protected by the Civil Rights Act" as my topic for a college English paper.

Actually, yes. VERY happy indeed.

The Wizard of BC: That's exactly as it should be.

[Frank McGrath]

If I may relate a story it may help some others understand an "Official" opinion of Kilt lifting.

Setting
A Vancouver BC pub. The evening is getting on and those who have had a few are feeling no pain.

Three gentlemen are standing at the bar conversing amongst themselves when a very attractive lady in her '20's, who obviously has had a few, approaches each man in turn and ask politely, and in what seems a joking manner, if she can lift their kilt and check if "it's" true.
Each man tells the girl NO!
When she makes it to the third man she is getting a little miffed that no one will allow her to look so she starts to laugh and playingly persisting.
She has asked the third man once and his answer was NO!.
She asks a second time and reaches down for his apron. He politely pushes her hand away and says, "Excuse me, I asked you not to do that."
She is now getting angry at the refusals to her coy request so quickly reaches down and lifts the man's apron.

As the lady's hands come up the man reaches behind to his belt and pulls out his handcuffs.

The off-duty officer then calls a squad car. The lady is arrested. She is now a convicted sex offender and must register where ever she lives.

No one, and I mean NO ONE BUT MY WIFE has the right to assault me.

You may be cute. You may be coy. You may even be a former friend.
Anyone attempting to lift a womans skirt Will be arrested for assault. Fact.
If you attempt to lift my kilt I will try my best to see you suffer the same fate.

Amen.

[Phil E. Begg]

Atagahi

I would agree with your stipulation that society expects us to (attempt) to get out of a situation without (further) violence.

However, I find that violence has been done when, after joking and then serious verbal warnings have been given, and perhaps a physical attempt to deflect the assault (not sexual, just simple assault), but the assault continues, self-defense is required. Whether that is best done by flipping open a phone and dialling 911 or whatever direct physical action is necessitated by the situation, depends entirely on circumstance.

State of mind of the victim - your imputed fear of homosexual assault or whatever - is completely immaterial. The action of attempting to expose someone against their will after direct warning is, pure and simple, an assault.


Phil

[Mountainman]

Haven't had this unfortunate experience yet, though this is a very informative thread. lots of good responses to such attempts.

[Jaggy thistle]

when asked the question my standard reply is that is for me to know and you to find out with some very interesting and pleasant results!

[AtagahiKC]

Phil E. Begg: I agree that if warnings have been given, lifting a kilt without permission is not right.

My point centered around a kilt lifting without notice. I think the two situations call for different countermeasures. But I don't know that I'd call the police.

Was it an assault? I don't know that the level of harm rises to the legal requirements in most states. It would depend a lot on whether the victim felt threatened or not, which is a required element. Thus, my discussion of the state of mind of the victim. I think that there would be problems with showing that the perpetrator intended to cause physical harm, as well.

These are all subjective questions for a jury to decide. One thing I learned long ago is that the truth is what the jury believes is the truth. That makes it unpredictable from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

But that is just my two cents on the matter. Everyone is free to his or her own opinion.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Actually, no. An assault is any unwanted physical contact. If I poke you in the arm, that can be assault. The charges probably won't stick, but it is technically assault.

[orangehaggis]

WOW! I misread this on the forum page and thought this thread was under the "Kilt Accessories" heading. I was trying to think of what a kilt lifter would be, or why it would be necessary!

Mark O - Ohio