Allowed tartans

[Don Patrick]

I'm kind of the same. Although I will wear the MacIan tartan when I dress up (the red background just makes such a statement), I tend to wear the US Army tartan more than others. For one, it's a more subdued color. Plus, as I tell people, it's the only "clan" to which I have ever actually sworn loyalty.

Hooaa!!

[gilmore]

I came across this on Lord Lyon's site ( http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/l...=Content.show& ):

"There are no strict rules on who has the right to wear a particular tartan. People normally wear only the tartan (if any) of their surname, or a "district tartan" connected with where they live or where their family come from.

Wearing a particular clan tartan indicates that the wearer bears an allegiance to the chief of that clan."

[CactusJack]

I also believe that Black Watch should be restricted to Black Watch soldiers and family of the Black Watch.

"Ancient Campbell is the same as Black Watch tartan--hardly surprising, since that illustrious regiment is a Campbell regiment, raised by the Duke of Argyll in 1739. (Indeed, as Alastair Campbell of Airds Yr., Chief Executive of Clan Campbell, has indicated in his authoritative book Campbell Tartan, the Black Watch tartan may well have been adopted as the clan's tartan because so many members of the clan were already wearing it, owing to their service in the regiment.)"

This was taken from the Clan Campbell Society of America's web page
Just thought I would throw in my two cents for what it's worth.

[MacWage]

I also believe that Black Watch should be restricted to Black Watch soldiers and family of the Black Watch.

"Ancient Campbell is the same as Black Watch tartan--hardly surprising, since that illustrious regiment is a Campbell regiment, raised by the Duke of Argyll in 1739. (Indeed, as Alastair Campbell of Airds Yr., Chief Executive of Clan Campbell, has indicated in his authoritative book Campbell Tartan, the Black Watch tartan may well have been adopted as the clan's tartan because so many members of the clan were already wearing it, owing to their service in the regiment.)"

This was taken from the Clan Campbell Society of America's web page
Just thought I would throw in my two cents for what it's worth.

Unless SOMEONE, ANYONE can show me a PORTRAIT or some other PRIMARY source of ANY Campbell in "Black Watch" or similar tartan BEFORE the formation of the regiment, I maintain the following:

The tartan for the Black Watch was CREATED FOR the regiment. It is NOT based on ANY "clan" tartans, esp. as clans HAD NO "CLAN TARTANS" when the Black Watch came into existance.
The "Regimental" tartans were usually ADAPTATIONS of Black Watch (note: Gordon, for example, and Forbes).
However, SEVERAL of the clans then adopted the regimental tartans from the regiment bearing its name (note: Campbell and Gordon, as 2 famous regiments AND clans). I contend that these tartans were created FOR the regiments (the "Government sett" based ones were VARIATIONS for REGIMENT IDENTIFICATION purposes), THEN adopted by the clans AFTER THE FACT.

UNLESS someone shows me EVIDENCE in a primary source format, I hold the above.

Now, whether one sees "Black Watch"/Government Sett as appropriate for a "general" tartan we can debate until we are black, blue, and green..
The FACT remains, that the sett is probably the EASIEST to get your hands on and also the most common and popular.
So, appropriateness is really just an academic question at this point.

(Off now)

Now, where is my Blackewatch greatkilt?



(For those who do not know, THAT last statement was a stick at my own preference for "belted plaid" and Cajunscots pet peave of "Blackwatch"/"Black Watch")

[MacWage]

I also believe that Black Watch should be restricted to Black Watch soldiers and family of the Black Watch.

"Ancient Campbell is the same as Black Watch tartan--hardly surprising, since that illustrious regiment is a Campbell regiment, raised by the Duke of Argyll in 1739. (Indeed, as Alastair Campbell of Airds Yr., Chief Executive of Clan Campbell, has indicated in his authoritative book Campbell Tartan, the Black Watch tartan may well have been adopted as the clan's tartan because so many members of the clan were already wearing it, owing to their service in the regiment.)"

This was taken from the Clan Campbell Society of America's web page
Just thought I would throw in my two cents for what it's worth.

Unless SOMEONE, ANYONE can show me a PORTRAIT or some other PRIMARY source of ANY Campbell in "Black Watch" or similar tartan BEFORE the formation of the regiment, I maintain the following:

The tartan for the Black Watch was CREATED FOR the regiment. It is NOT based on ANY "clan" tartans, esp. as clans HAD NO "CLAN TARTANS" when the Black Watch came into existance.
Also, the OFFICIAL name for THAT tartan is "Govenment Sett" (though 99% of folks call it "Black Watch").
The "Regimental" tartans were usually ADAPTATIONS of Black Watch (note: Gordon, for example, and Forbes).
However, SEVERAL of the clans then adopted the regimental tartans from the regiment bearing its name (note: Campbell and Gordon, as 2 famous regiments AND clans). I contend that these tartans were created FOR the regiments (the "Government sett" based ones were VARIATIONS for REGIMENT IDENTIFICATION purposes), THEN adopted by the clans AFTER THE FACT.

UNLESS someone shows me EVIDENCE in a primary source format, I hold the above.

Now, whether one sees "Black Watch"/Government Sett as appropriate for a "general" tartan we can debate until we are black, blue, and green..
The FACT remains, that the sett is probably the EASIEST to get your hands on and also the most common and popular.
So, appropriateness is really just an academic question at this point.

(Off now)

Now, where is my Blackewatch greatkilt?



(For those who do not know, THAT last statement was a stick at my own preference for "belted plaid" and Cajunscots pet peave of "Blackwatch"/"Black Watch")

[Quaich Maker]

Consider this .

""The Black Watch - The Clan Grant Hunting Tartan
The "Black Watch" sett in the Ancient Colors is known as the Grant Hunting tartan. This is the Hunting Tartan recommended for Clan Grant by our Chief. "Hunting" tartans supposedly developed as alternate tartan setts for the clans, with darker colors, and worn while "hunting" because it acted as a better camouflage outdoors (the belief being that the standard or "dress" tartan setts, with brighter colors, would scare off their quary).

The Black Watch tartan is the Grant "Hunting" tartan due to our clan's long association with this regiment. The original Black Watch regiments enlisted men from Clan Grant, and it is said that this tartan was originally a Grant tartan before being adopted as the official tartan of the regiment. There are many clans, such as the Campbells, whose standard tartan is identical to the Grant hunting tartan, or other clans, who have a variation of the Black Watch tartan (typically with lighter colors, an extra stripe, or a light stripe somewhere in the sett, etc), whose clan members were part of the original Black Watch Regiment and adopted the Black Watch tartan or a variation of it as their own. The Black Watch tartan in the modern colors is currently one of the most recognized tartans in the world, and is one of a handful that are considered by many to be a "national" tartan for Scotland. ""

http://www.clangrant-us.org/tartans.htm

[MacWage]

Consider this .

""The Black Watch - The Clan Grant Hunting Tartan
The "Black Watch" sett in the Ancient Colors is known as the Grant Hunting tartan. This is the Hunting Tartan recommended for Clan Grant by our Chief. "Hunting" tartans supposedly developed as alternate tartan setts for the clans, with darker colors, and worn while "hunting" because it acted as a better camouflage outdoors (the belief being that the standard or "dress" tartan setts, with brighter colors, would scare off their quary).

The Black Watch tartan is the Grant "Hunting" tartan due to our clan's long association with this regiment. The original Black Watch regiments enlisted men from Clan Grant, and it is said that this tartan was originally a Grant tartan before being adopted as the official tartan of the regiment. There are many clans, such as the Campbells, whose standard tartan is identical to the Grant hunting tartan, or other clans, who have a variation of the Black Watch tartan (typically with lighter colors, an extra stripe, or a light stripe somewhere in the sett, etc), whose clan members were part of the original Black Watch Regiment and adopted the Black Watch tartan or a variation of it as their own. The Black Watch tartan in the modern colors is currently one of the most recognized tartans in the world, and is one of a handful that are considered by many to be a "national" tartan for Scotland. ""

http://www.clangrant-us.org/tartans.htm

I am in full agreement.
My FIRST homemade kilt (and by its quality, THAT is what it was) is in Black Watch, as is one of my worsted wool belted plaids.

Nowadays, Black Watch HAS become a de facto "national" tartan (whether or not people like it that way).

It is also a NUMBER of clan tartans and the basis of my beloved Gordon tartan.


At the end of the day, I LOVE the Black Watch tartan. I WILL probably make another one in that tartan in the future. (I'll probably come up with a REALLY good excuse as to WHY, but the reason WILL be that I like it so much.)

Todd will probably want to "shoot" me for this post.

[macwilkin]

Todd will probably want to "shoot" me for this post.

Not necessarily, John...my first kilt was a surplus kilt from the Black Watch of Canada (but made in Scotland) when I was doing WWI reenacting.

Nowadays, I don't know if I could wear the Government sett because of my own personal beliefs regarding the tartan -- maybe as a reenactor again. But I won't begrudge anyone who does, and especially not the Grants, since:

1. Lord Strathspey is our St. Andrew's Society's patron
2. The Cummings have had a long association with the Grants



T.

[kiltedbandit]

I remember this question/discussion from 2yrs ago and assume it crops up from time to time.

I have it on very good authority that anyone can wear any tartan (or be a member of any clan) providing that due respect is shown. In other words, no one should have any objection to you wearing their particular tartan so long as you wear it with pride and honour, respecting the fact that it may mean a lot to a lot of people!

You should also wear a formal kilt correctly - esp when it comes to fit, length etc

Al

[Quaich Maker]

Not necessarily, John...my first kilt was a surplus kilt from the Black Watch of Canada (but made in Scotland) when I was doing WWI reenacting.

Nowadays, I don't know if I could wear the Government sett because of my own personal beliefs regarding the tartan -- maybe as a reenactor again. But I won't begrudge anyone who does, and especially not the Grants, since:

1. Lord Strathspey is our St. Andrew's Society's patron
2. The Cummings have had a long association with the Grants



T.

cajunscot ,
you miss the point of the article .
And that point is , that the Black Watch tartan , is a Grant tartan .