Irish Need Not Apply

[emolas]

I'd use one of my favorite lines from "Blazing Saddles" but I am sure it would be instanter banned. (And properly so, outside of that context.)

LOL, That was exactly what I thought of when I read the title of the thread!

[Frank McGrath]

My guestbook entry was pulled. What about my first amendment rights?...What are they afraid of?.

[Mike1]

My guestbook entry was pulled. What about my first amendment rights?...What are they afraid of?.

LOL, you can't possibly be serious? Tell me how your First Amendment rights have been trampled upon. Please explain how your comments being removed from a privately-owned Web site have ANYTHING to do with Congress not establishing a law abridging the freedom of speech.

Frank, since you're ready to start dragging the legal artillery to the table, have you ever heard of Presumption of Innocence?

This thread has become yet another tempest in a teapot and it has now started to grow beyond ridiculous. If you want to conduct a kangaroo court, conduct it via the back channel.

This is just like the outrage that took place over a parody blog page, in these last 48 hours. Have any of you taken the opportunity to actually read the Scottish Clan/Society Rules they make available on that site?

Let me quote some of that to you -

In accepting applications we are guided by the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs; The Court of The Lord Lyon and the publication “Scottish Clan & Family Encyclopedia” by George Way of Plean & Romilly Squire. Furthermore, we wish to advise you that preference will be given to entities that are recognized by their Clan Chief &/or National President.

Anyone see anything about them wanting other groups to be involved, other than recognized Scottish clans?

Here, look at this one -

This is a Scottish event - Not a Celtic Festival.

The emphasis is their own, BTW.

If that isn't clear enough for you, then look here -

Participants are reminded that this event is Scottish and is strictly invitational. The Caledonian Club of San Francisco is constituted as a private social club and reserves the right to refuse entry to any person or organization as it sees fit.

I think they make that very clear. IF they are desirous of your presence at this event, they will invite you. What part of that is so difficult to understand? You see, one identifying factor of an exclusive event is the exclusivity that the event provides.

Have they made their qualifications quite clear? It is their event and they get to make the decisions about who participates, not any of you.

About a mile from here is an exclusive country club. They have a beautiful facility, golf course, swimming pool, etc. But The bastirts won't let me use their facilities. All because I am unable to afford their annual fees. Wahhhh, they are mean and nasty. Wahhh, I want in and they won't let me. Oh, yeah, that's right. The club is exclusive. OK, I'm already over it.

Do any of you get the same sense about this thread being close to a conclusion?

[Yaish]

Puppies. Sugar. Flowers. Cinnamon.

There, I dont think any of those offend moderator sensibilities. Heaven forbid forum members actually talk about anything they really wish to discuss.

Daz posted a link to their contact page, and I have not seen anyone really posting anything too negative about either the event or the society. However it is arguable that the members of this website constitute the games key audience, people interested in scottish (and celtic) culture who have plenty of disposable income.
How are they to know they have offended us, if we do not tell them. Sure, they still have the right to determine who attends their games, but they may be interested in knowing that the people who plan to attend dont agree with their practices.

[macwilkin]

Puppies. Sugar. Flowers. Cinnamon.

There, I dont think any of those offend moderator sensibilities. Heaven forbid forum members actually talk about anything they really wish to discuss.

Daz posted a link to their contact page, and I have not seen anyone really posting anything too negative about either the event or the society. However it is arguable that the members of this website constitute the games key audience, people interested in scottish (and celtic) culture who have plenty of disposable income.
How are they to know they have offended us, if we do not tell them. Sure, they still have the right to determine who attends their games, but they may be interested in knowing that the people who plan to attend dont agree with their practices.

Yaish,

I'm not sure which thread you're reading then.

As I stated earlier, we have only heard one side of the story here, and heresay to boot. Michael wasn't able to display the letter he received, so all we have is his word -- and while I do not believe Michael is not telling us the truth, the fact of the matter is that this thread's subject raises people's passions before they think -- much like the earlier threads about the religious/political blog and kilts -- and as a result, folks are condemning the Pleasanton Games and the Caledonian Club without hearing their side.

On two occasions I asked members to remain calm and express their displeasure through "adult" channels. Write an e-mail, call the club -- but name-calling and denial of "due process" will not help anyone's cause. I also tried to present some possible reasons to their decision -- but until we hear from the "horses' mouth", we cannot assume that the members of the Caledonian Club's commitee are a bunch of anti-Irish bigoted racists. That's not fair and quite frankly, contradicts the arguements being made against them.

So instead of the "kangaroo court" thread, I would encourage members who disagree with the Club's policy's to write, e-mail and/or call them and say so. Or don't go to the Pleasanton Games. It's a free country, after all. But witch-hunts are another matter entirely.

Again, no offence or insult meant towards anyone here. But someone needs to present an opposing viewpoint.

Regards,

Todd

[Mike1]

How are they to know they have offended us, if we do not tell them. Sure, they still have the right to determine who attends their games, but they may be interested in knowing that the people who plan to attend dont agree with their practices.

If you want them to know you are offended, then tell them.

If you really want them to know you are offended, don't spend money at their event.

All the protests to this point are a complete waste, since the society has clearly identified their prerequisites for participation. If you don't like it, then don't go. How much easier can it possibly be?

[auld argonian]

It would seem that it's their way of giving priority to Scottish Clans and participants rather than excluding everyone else. It's a Scottish organization, after all. An analogy might be a Blues festival...if it's a Blues festival and there's only so many slots available on stage and they slotted a Jazz band into one of them while several Blues bands were left in the lurch, what then? Perhaps they feel that they might end up with too many participants in the Games if they don't set some guidelines. And I completely understand their making the distinction that it's not a Celtic festival...it's their prerogative. Plenty of games and fests to go 'round...shouldn't relly bother anyone.

Best

AA

[highlander_Daz]

"Participants are reminded that this event is Scottish and is strictly invitational. The Caledonian Club of San Francisco is constituted as a private social club and reserves the right to refuse entry to any person or organization as it sees fit."

Mike I understand your point about terms and conditions of entry, -Youve been to Scotland you know that an event like this would never ever take place here, My displeasure is that they are claiming its a "Scottish" event, yet its exclusive nature is the exact opposite of what we are tying to achive in Scotland -do I need mention the "S" word?

Ive said enough and I agree with Mike we should voice our displeasure at this event to the organisers that seem to have a warped view of Scots values.

I can see a great big padlock looming!

[Alan H]

Yup, they're very clear....it's by invitation only, and suitability is judged by whatever yardstick they choose. It's the Caledonian Clubs party, and they get to run it the way they want as long as they don't do something illegal...which they don't.

You bet...and the club is absolutely, completely, entirely one-hundred percent within their rights to include and exclude whomever they wish from their event, and then go sell tickets for it. You BET.


Also, we haven't seen Michaels letter. Maybe it's very politely written and not a brush -off, eh? Could be.

However, my experience with them wasn't so pleasant or encouraging.

That said, I've spent enough time in this thread and I think I'll read some other ones, now...

[Ayin McFye]

I just wanted to add my two cents into this thread. I am a very celtic. Both Scottish and Irish, but i do tend to embrace my irish heritage more. After reading all these posts I have come to the sum-up conclusion.

I am saddened that it may be invitational only, scottish games, but it is completely in their right do make it so. I will harbor no ill will or negative feelings towards them because of this instance.

The name of this group is xmarkstheSCOT. But the owners and moderators have said since the beginning that all are welcome, because that is their right to decide who can be on their Private website. If they decided that they didn't want to talk about anything Irish, or welcome Irish, Welsh or any other faction it would be their right to do so.

I applaud them for sticking to their beliefs and not embracing all celtic origins, if that is their intent to do so.

I am not a MacGregor, and as far as I know I have zero relations to them. If I applied to their clan group and said "Hi my name is Ayin McFye, I'm not a MacGregor, but I am scottish, can i please join?" I would hope that they would say "No, sorry MacGregor's only", otherwise the integrity of that group lessens some.

It's not for me to say that the Highland games would be better or worse if all celtic origins were represented, they have made the decision for us, because it's their group, and I think we should respect the choice they have made.

If you don't like it, then don't support them by not going and spending money at their event. They are probably well aware that they may be losing money, and they are ok with it.

Sorry, I just had to add my two cents... carry on everyone.