Question on Knife Pleats

[alhrensblade]

Greetings all,

I've been thinking of getting a modern-styled kilt for a while now, but as the prices of such things as utilikilts and such are a bit... shall we say 'high' for a garment I want to just try out, I've decided to make one. I've got a bit of sewing skill, and a fair knowledge of most of the basics of making a kilt, save one thing: every site I've seen gives instructions like 'Sew the pleats...', but I have no idea -where- you'd stitch. I like the look of knife pleats much more than box, and would really prefer to go this route, but I can't for the life of me figure which would be the best way to stitch.

Assuming that we're looking at the 'outside-facing' side of the pleated section of a kilt (you'll have to pardon the crude drawing and possibly incorrect pleat direction ^^;), which line would one stitch down to do a proper knife pleat- line A, on the 'outer edge' of the pleat, to hold it down to the one beneath it, line B, on the 'inside edge' to hold the 'inside edge' of the pleat to the layer above, or somewhere else entirely?
Any help on this would be most appreciated.

[HeathBar]

By your description, you want to sew the edge of the pleat to the next pleat. The idea is to sew in a way to make the stitches as invisible as possible. If you are hand stichting, I would advise you to look at the book, The Art of Kiltmaking available at http://www.celticdragonpress.com/

If you are machine stitching, there are a couple of ways to do it. You could fold the pleat as if you were hand stitching, but the run a stitch down the edge of the pleat. Try to use a thread that will match the colors of the material. The other machine method is to line up the edges of the pleat very accurately and then run a stitch from the inside of the kilt. I think this way works better for kilts with pleat that are 1" or wider. I suppose it could be done with smaller pleats if you have a narrow foot, a steady hand, and a good seam ripper. Oh yea, and patience, lots of patience.

Did that help?

[alhrensblade]

Hmm... That helps put things together in my mind, actually. For best 'nonvisibility' I'd want then line B, with enough overlap on the pleats themselves to hide the stitching (I've not calculated pleats yet, but then again I'll be working not with plaid but with a decent weight dark grey somethingorother I've got about 10 yards of laying around). Now that I've got that last bit worked out, I'll start measuring and such tonight. Than ks ^^

[HeathBar]

Let me see if I can explain the hand stitching method without pictuures.

First you would fold Pleat A, figure the taper, then fold Pleat B, figure in its taper. The material for Pleat C is folded back, not out in front. So all you have in front of you are Pleats A & B. Next you would sew the edge of Pleat A to Pleat B.

Then you bring up the material for Pleat C. Fold it with it taper and pull the rest back, not forward. Then sew the edge of Pleat B to Pleat C.

Keep repeating until you have all the pleats sewn.

Clear as mud.

[Pleater]

If the outside of the kilt is towards the viewer then in your diagram the seam is actually to the right of B, and it involves the outer fold of the pleat, in your diagram it is to the right, not the inner fold of the previous pleat.

There are two different methods of doing the tapering.

One is done on wool and wool mix kilts, because they are more pliable. If you fold the fabric to form the inner crease and sew through the two layers - you can do that on a sewing machine, you slant the line of the sewing so as to make the distance from the fold decrease as it gets further from the waistline. As it is a slant the seam is longer than the straight grain and will need to be pressed to fit.

The other is more usually seen on cotton or other rigid fabrics. There the outer edge of the pleat is kept straight on the grain of the fabric, but it is sewn down onto the fabric beneath it a slant.

When using a sewing machine you normally can't pin in all the pleats, but do one at a time so you can get at it easily.

If you take a piece of fabric and fold it up you should see how the pleats overlap and would get in the way of machine sewing if they were all pinned down.

[BozemanboB]

Pleater, I have a question for you about knife pleating cotton denim.

I'm working now on Y-Kilt V2, a knife-pleated case. I've got the pleat edges sewn from hip to hem, and now need to taper the top. I tried this last night according to your instructions above and then had a, well, a seam-ripping party. I tried to keep the exposed knife edge straight and introduce the taper by adjusting the fabric underneath the pleat (the hidden knife edge, in other words).

Imagine this:
- The kilt has 18 pleats. Call pleat 1 the left-most pleat, pleat 9 is the middle of the back.
- Kilt spread open on a table, face up, hem toward me.
- The hem of pleat 1 is angled to the left much more than hem of pleat 18 is angled to the right.
- Pleat 9 should be vertical, but it leans right dramatically.

Seen another way, arrange the kilt so that pleat 9 is vertical:
- the hem of pleat 1 touches the edge of the table
- the hem of pleat 18 is several inches from the edge of the table

The result is that the hem of the left side is hangs lower than the right side when I lash the thing about my hips.

My question (finally): Where did I go wrong?

Thank you for your help!


boB

[Pleater]

Once the taper is being sewn in, the kilt should not lie flat.

Not with the pleats neatly folded anyway.

I am a bit mystified by the kilt not hanging straight when worn.

First - when starting out, did you get the fabric straight on the grain of the weaving? The waist edge should run along one thread (and the bottom edge too if it is not the selvage.)

You then need to check that the fabric is not skewed - it can happen if the fabric is rolled at an angle and it can take some pulling and persuading to get it right.

When the pleats are formed the lower part - below the fell, should form a rectangle and remain a rectangle but the fell is part of a cone - if laid on a table right side up it should make a hump where your rump would fit, and if laid right side down it should curve upwards at the top where it would go inwards to your waist.

Have you sewn along the top edge of the pleats, along the waistline? That could be what is pulling the waist out of shape. With the distortion into three dimensions you might need to allow the top edges to find their own level.

With denim being so rigid it might take a while for it to accept the waist supression, even though it has been sewn correctly. I wonder if it is the inner fold of the pleats refusing to run across the grain and you might need to cut the fabric down the straight grain of the unsupressed pleat, so that the front two layers can move across the back layer of the pleat without twisting when you do the narrowing.

A line of zig sag stitches on a sewing machine would stop the edges fraying, if that is the reason for the unevenness. The vertical edges would then be 'whatever distance is supressed' different at the waistline

You could try lots of steam, pulling, and pressing on the inside so as to form an even curve before doing anything more drastic. Remember, though you are not trying to make it lie flat.

[BozemanboB]

> Once the taper is being sewn in, the kilt should not lie flat.
Understood and agreed. I sewed in the taper, then for the fell to be flat on the table the pleats were splayed at the hem.

> First - when starting out, did you get the fabric straight on the grain
> of the weaving? The waist edge should run along one thread (and the
> bottom edge too if it is not the selvage.)
I hemmed the bottom edge straight across the selvage, and when I measured and chalked the pleats I made sure the pleat lines were perpendicular to the hem. With the pleat edges sewn from fell to hem - before I tapered the top - the entire thing laid very flat and square. Once the pleats were sewn in I laid everything out flat and the pleats made a nice rectangle with squared corners.

> You then need to check that the fabric is not skewed - it can happen if
> the fabric is rolled at an angle and it can take some pulling and persuading
> to get it right.
I'm not sure how that could happen, really. I cut the edges square to the hem. Maybe I don't understand your point about rolling the fabric...?

> When the pleats are formed the lower part - below the fell, should form a
> rectangle and remain a rectangle but the fell is part of a cone - if laid on a
> table right side up it should make a hump where your rump would fit, and
> if laid right side down it should curve upwards at the top where it would
> go inwards to your waist.
Your point is true if I try to lay all the pleats flat - the converse of the statement above where I let the pleats splay. And it did just that...

> I wonder if it is the inner fold of the pleats refusing to run across the
> grain and you might need to cut the fabric down the straight grain of
> the unsupressed pleat, so that the front two layers can move across
> the back layer of the pleat without twisting when you do the narrowing.
I think that might help. If I cut the inner pleat line nearly down to the fell it'll be a lot easier to slide the fabric to make the taper. That's what you mean, right?


Maybe I didn't quite make my problem clear (tough to do in words!). It's as though, when making a box kilt, only the left edge of each box pleat is tapered. By the time you got to the last pleat it would be hanging nearly sideways. (At least, I think that's what would happen.)

I'll give it a go tonight, and if it doesn't work right I'll take pictures. I should have done that last night!!


I have Barb's book on order now - maybe I should just wait until I receive it. NAH! I'm going to give it a go and see what happens!

Thanks again, and I'll report back on my results if I get very far tonight.

[BozemanboB]

Well, I might have found something wrong.

The first pleat (on the left, #1, whatever) drifted off-line at the top. That would cause all the rest of the pleats to wander as well since they were measured from this first one.

I have a construction technique question: when you sew down the pleats, as on a cotton kilt, do you iron the pleats from hem to waist before sewing them from fell to hem? On this kilt I ironed only from fell to hem, and I think that's causing some of my grief. It's more difficult now to get the edge of the pleat to continue straight from fell to waist.

Pleater, I've seen some of your other threads and it looks like you make beautiful kilts. Do you have a collection of pictures somewhere on the forum? I'd like to take a closer work at your work to fuel my enthusiasm and provide construction ideas. Yeah... like I need to fuel my enthusiasm!!

I'll keep you posted on progress and post pics (and questions) as needed.

boB

[Pleater]

Sorry if I was not clear about cloth arriving skewed - we usually get fabric rolled onto cardbord tubes or rectangles in our shops - if it is put onto those carelessly it can end up with the grain pulled off square, and it takes some work to get it back on the straight - if cut as it is the thread gradually works its way back to being straight and the garment becomes crooked.

I suspect that it is the denim cloth which is resistant to being bent into shape when in three layers.

I did think of different options - like making every other pleat dead straight and the alternate ones have double the taper, and then let them fight it out between them as to how the kilt sits.

Beware though - I experiment - it is just an idea.

Yes it is logical that if you pull each knife pleat the same way that you will end up with a garment that lies in a curve, but that is in two dimensions - you want to shape the fell into a three dimensional shape - part of a cone.

You need to be using the narrow curved end of the ironing board to press in that shape - and it does involve encouraging the cloth to distort.

The basic problem is that the kilt was designed for woolen cloth which is quite happy to be tailored into three dimensional shapes. Woolen cloth will stretch and/or narrow under heat, steam and pressure and look none the worse for it. Translating a kilt shape into a rigid cotton and you are actually pushing the boundaries of the design.

It is an engineering problem - I can 'see' that the pleats have to hang from a line on the body - that line being the width of one pleat at the place where it ceases to be in contact with the body and hangs straight down under the influence of gravity.

To hang straight the pleat needs to have certain elements.

It must not be distorted by pulls from adjacent pleats - indicating that there is too little fabric, when folded, to cover the circumference. Likewise it does not need extra fabric over what is required, otherwise it will tend to buckle in order to narrow itself.

The grain of the fabric needs to be horisontal at the line it leaves the body, so it lies right. Likewise the edges of the pleat need to lie on the vertical grain of the cloth, or be sewn in permanently.

There should be a suporting part of the pleat, above the line, which has to hold the lower pleat correctly as well as cope with the change in the body shape. It is the tailoring of that upper part - the fell - which is the kiltmakers' art.

I hope that cutting along the straight grain of the inner fold will rob the pleats of reistance to being twisted into the correct shape.

Failing that cutting away some more of the pleats and joining the kilt to something the right shape so it can't twist is looking good.

I'm beginning to think of riveting pleats to the top six inches of a pair of jeans and then cutting off the surplus. Or maybe glue would do it.