11-ounce kilt question

**Barb T** · 9th October 07, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Moosedog

The description says "4-inch pleats" on both of them...I assume this is the depth of the pleat.

It's not clear what "4-inch pleats" actually means. If the kilt really has pleats that are 4" deep, then the sett would have to be about 9". That's an uncommonly large sett for a lightweight tartan. In my experience, lightweight tartans more typically have setts under 6" and sometimes even under 5". So, maybe this is a tartan with a 5" sett, and the kilt has pleats with 1" reveal and 4" total hidden inside the pleat (which would make it more like 2" deep pleats). Or, maybe it's a tartan with a 4" sett and they put in a pleat every 2 setts.

Realize that, if a kilt is pleated properly to the sett or to the stripe, a kilt can't be made with an arbitrary pleat depth. The pleat depth is governed almost entirely by the size of the sett (not by the amount of tartan in a kilt or by the size of the person). If you had a 5" sett, and a pleat roughly every one repeat, the pleats couldn't be more than a bit more than 2" deep. If the sett were 6", pleats would be a bit more than 2 1/2" deep. If the sett were 9", then the pleats would be a bit more than 4" deep.

Whether a kilt made from lightweight tartan has all of the internal construction details that a heavier weight kilt has depends on who made it. If the kilt is made properly and in traditional fashion, it doesn't need any reinforcing.

I agree with the others who have said that an 11 oz kilt wrinkles more easily. And I've also found that there's 11 oz tartan and then there's 11 oz tartan. Some makes better kilts than others.

And one last. Most 11 oz tartan is not made with a kilting selvedge, meaning that the kilt will have to have a hem.

Cheers,

Barb

**The Wizard of BC** · 9th October 07, 01:00 PM

The standard we use as kiltmakers is fabric weight is equal to one linear yard of double width fabric.

However, This is not written in stone anywhere and you will see a wide range of ways to calculate fabric weight.

For example - If the fabric is 54" Wide and not 60" the same linear yard will be 10% different. So if they both weigh 13 ounces then the wider fabric is actually lighter.

This problem is aggravated by the weavers who all have their own secret systems and by the fabric sellers who have another secret system.
I have even heard that some man-made fiber kilts are weighed by the diameter of their yarn "As if it were 100% Worsted Wool".

In general though, 11 oz. of your fabric should be 1 yard long by 60" wide.

**turpin** · 9th October 07, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Barb T.

It's not clear what "4-inch pleats" actually means. If the kilt really has pleats that are 4" deep, then the sett would have to be about 9". That's an uncommonly large sett for a lightweight tartan. In my experience, lightweight tartans more typically have setts under 6" and sometimes even under 5". So, maybe this is a tartan with a 5" sett, and the kilt has pleats with 1" reveal and 4" total hidden inside the pleat (which would make it more like 2" deep pleats). Or, maybe it's a tartan with a 4" sett and they put in a pleat every 2 setts.

Realize that, if a kilt is pleated properly to the sett or to the stripe, a kilt can't be made with an arbitrary pleat depth. The pleat depth is governed almost entirely by the size of the sett (not by the amount of tartan in a kilt or by the size of the person). If you had a 5" sett, and a pleat roughly every one repeat, the pleats couldn't be more than a bit more than 2" deep. If the sett were 6", pleats would be a bit more than 2 1/2" deep. If the sett were 9", then the pleats would be a bit more than 4" deep.

Whether a kilt made from lightweight tartan has all of the internal construction details that a heavier weight kilt has depends on who made it. If the kilt is made properly and in traditional fashion, it doesn't need any reinforcing.

I agree with the others who have said that an 11 oz kilt wrinkles more easily. And I've also found that there's 11 oz tartan and then there's 11 oz tartan. Some makes better kilts than others.

And one last. Most 11 oz tartan is not made with a kilting selvedge, meaning that the kilt will have to have a hem.

Cheers,

Barb

I am so conflicted when I read Barb's posts. On the one hand, every post of hers adds value to this forum and enlightens all of us just a wee bit more. I sometime find myself just searching for her old posts to glean a bit of buried treasure.

On the other hand, unless she can sew while she's typing with her toes, she's not getting any closer to the two kilts I have on order.

On the whole, I guess she deserves a bit of a break from sewing. I know she's into at least December for delivery. I know what a backlog feels like, now, and mine isn't near as long as hers. I think I just take a pill, chillax, and focus on Smith instead of Jones.

**Barb T** · 9th October 07, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by turpin

On the other hand, unless she can sew while she's typing with her toes, she's not getting any closer to the two kilts I have on order.

Mmmm, ouch. Well, I sort of think of it as having many roles to play, and only one of those is kiltmaker.

B

**Riverkilt** · 9th October 07, 02:10 PM

For what its worth, my 11oz sewn from Lochcarron cloth does have a selvedge. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones. But don't think you can go wrong with Lochcarron fabrics.

Ron

**Barb T** · 10th October 07, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by Riverkilt

For what its worth, my 11oz sewn from Lochcarron cloth does have a selvedge. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones. But don't think you can go wrong with Lochcarron fabrics.

Ron

Hmmm. Lochcarron actually doesn't weave 11 oz tartan. They weave 10 oz. (Reiver), 13 oz. (Braeriach), and 16 oz (Strome). Their 13 and 16 oz tartans have kilting selvedges, but, as far as I know, their 10 oz tartan doesn't. So, I'm confused about what you mean by an "11 oz sewn from Lochcarron tartan." Maybe your kilt is 13 oz?? Lochcarron's 10 oz tartan is _really_ light.

And virtually all fabric is woven with a selvedge. It's just a question of whether the selvedge is good enough for the bottom edge of a kilt. So, lightweight tartan does have a selvedge, but it's commonly not very attractive.

Barb

**Riverkilt** · 10th October 07, 08:20 AM

Hmmm, here's what I know....

This was my first kilt from Kathy Lare back in December 2004.

The little card that came with it back then says it was kilt # 770 that she had sewn and it is 11 oz Macdonald Lord of the Isles

The invoice says, " 1 8 yard 11 oz kilt 'Macdonald Lord of the Isles - Lochcarron Mill"

It has a selvedge. It wears as well as any of my other hand sewn kilts.
I live up on a mesa that is nicknamed "The Windy Mesa" because it is. Haven't noticed any wind problems.

There are some varied photos of the kilt on the first page of my gallery.

My only guess is that maybe Lochcarron wove an 11 oz in that tartan at one time.

Ron

**Barb T** · 10th October 07, 10:42 AM

I've ordered from Lochcarron for nearly 10 years, and their Reiver weight has always been 10 oz., and their next heavier weight has been 13 over that time. So, I don't know what the explanation is, to be honest!

Barb

**McFarkus** · 11th October 07, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Barb T.

Mmmm, ouch. Well, I sort of think of it as having many roles to play, and only one of those is kiltmaker.

B

Well, Turpin, looks like your kilts just went to the bottom of the pile.

**Riverkilt** · 11th October 07, 08:51 PM

Okay, looks like folks split the difference. I emailed Kathy Lare to clarify what my kilt is. Got this response back.

Dear Ron,

Lochcarron weaves a 10.5 oz. (11 oz.) Reiver tartan which does have a selvedge edge. They have their largest range of tartans in this weight. Some tartans are only available in this weight. I consulted the Traditional Kiltmakers' Guild about this and everyone has made kilts in this weight which they still consider kilting fabric.

Hope that helps clarify things...

Bottom line, 10/11/10.5 ounce is good stuff.

Ron