Cheap formal wear?

[Chef]

Formal-on-the-cheap is too wide a brush for me. I have seen outfits that use PC conversions from tail coats, or mess jackets paired with inexpensive (but properly styled) accessories and well made kilts (not necessarily tanks) that have looked just grand whether the wearer was the only one in a kilt at the function or one of hundreds.

Unfortunately I have also seen the formal-on-the-cheap that would look silly at a formal gathering of kilts and while it might fool some if you are the only kilt wearer, it still won't pass as quality garments.

If waiters' jackets passed as formal wear then plenty of people would buy them instead of buying or renting a real tux. Guess what they don't, because they don't look right. Using the excuse that no one else will know is bad form and quite frankly wrong. Certainly there are many people who nothing of clothing who will accept what you wear as the real deal, but plenty others will still see that you are not wearing quality garments.

Can you do formal on the cheap? Sure as mentioned above or by finding bargains on new and used jackets and accessories. So what is my advice? First, to someone who only has a need for formal attire very occasionally - rent. There are plenty of places that will rent by mail so if you really only need it once a year, rent. Two years from now you might not be the same size anyway. What if you need formal wear a few times a year (so rentals are not really cost effective) if you can't find quality goods on the cheap - buy a tux and save up for the kilt. It's not unusual to find sales on tuxes. Are they Armani...of course not, but they will compare to an expensive tux better than a waiters jacket will compare to a PC.

Fluter, actually I do dislike it when someone shows up in a suit when he should be wearing a tux. in the same way I would dislike someone who showed up in jeans when he should be wearing a suit. Sorry, I'm old fashion and think we as a society have gone too far off the edge with this whatever-you-like is fine idea.

[fluter]

Mark, apologies for projecting on your point of view; I think that I read too much into the whole thread.

Fluter, actually I do dislike it when someone shows up in a suit when he should be wearing a tux.

In my hypothetical case---what you have is a respectable dark suit---that is the "proper" thing to do; that's why it's a "trick question." Don't take my word for it: ask Judith Martin (Miss Manners) who I'm sure you will agree is the antithesis of whatever-you-like.

But being well dressed and thrifty is always a good thing. As a working musician, the tux I wore for about 30 years was acquired for less than the pleated shirt I wore with it. Theres a nice sale on tux separates at Jos. A. Bank.


I'm a bit old-fashioned, too; but recently I had to remind myself that my "old" fashion has a context. My perceptions were formed 40 years ago, and 40 years before that the norms were different. Some of the "new fashions" I don't follow can be traced to my great-grandfather's generation. Ain't life grand?!

[Alan H]

As a working musician, the tux I wore for about 30 years was acquired for less than the pleated shirt I wore with it. Theres a nice sale on tux separates at Jos. A. Bank.


I'm a bit old-fashioned, too; but recently I had to remind myself that my "old" fashion has a context. My perceptions were formed 40 years ago, and 40 years before that the norms were different. Some of the "new fashions" I don't follow can be traced to my great-grandfather's generation. Ain't life grand?!

As another formerly working musician, I also used an ex-rental tuxedo for more gigs than I can remember in both symphony, wedding and Big Band work. I had two ex-hire tuxedos. there's nothing like wearing black to a summer afternoon wedding, and sweating like a pig, to then go home for an hour to re-hydrate and then climb into the same jacket for the dance band gig at the Hilton that night.

In all the years I did that...about fifteen... I never once had anyone complain about my cheap looking tuxedos.

One band I played with for a number of years prided itself on being "period" as in East Coast Society Orchestra, circa 1925-1930.....think Bix Beiderbecke and the Wolverines. We wore spats, though not with a tuxedo. Some of the other things we wore for that bands gigs are not currently "formal wear". So does that mean that "formal wear" now is "wrong"?

After all, what was formal wear in 1925 was different from what constituted "formal wear" in 1860. So were the people in 1925, "wrong"?

[DTrain]

I read this thread and left and came back to it since it stuck in my head.

I recently converted a formal , all-wool black tailscoat to a PC by following the path noted by others on XMarks. Is it a "real" Prince Charlie? Technically, I guess not. But I had a blast finding the right jacket, creating a pattern for the patches, finding the pewter buttons, weaving the epaulettes, etc. You see, it was something I CREATED (thanks to those here who blazed the trail before me). I had more fun doing that than I have had in a long time. Some people can go to a store and plop down $300-400 for a "real" Prince Charlie and be done. Mine was a labor of love. The total investment was probably $200 for the parts and some tailoring help, and countless hours of time spent in the effort. BUT I MADE IT. It's my favorite item in my closet because I invested my effort into creating it. Is it perfect? No. But I made it and it means something to me much more so than just buying one off the rack. I think that artists who paint, poets/authors who write, chefs who cook, songwriters who write songs, programmers who write code, designers--all who create can appreciate the fruits of their own labor can understand how much fun it is to actually make something.

This discussion has motivated me to make some pics of my PC conversion and post them soon. If making an X-Kilt is as much fun as that was, I plan to start soon.

[Alan H]

I read this thread and left and came back to it since it stuck in my head.

I recently converted a formal , all-wool black tailscoat to a PC by following the path noted by others on XMarks. Is it a "real" Prince Charlie? Technically, I guess not. But I had a blast finding the right jacket, creating a pattern for the patches, finding the pewter buttons, weaving the epaulettes, etc. You see, it was something I CREATED (thanks to those here who blazed the trail before me). I had more fun doing that than I have had in a long time. Some people can go to a store and plop down $300-400 for a "real" Prince Charlie and be done. Mine was a labor of love. The total investment was probably $200 for the parts and some tailoring help, and countless hours of time spent in the effort. BUT I MADE IT. It's my favorite item in my closet because I invested my effort into creating it. Is it perfect? No. But I made it and it means something to me much more so than just buying one off the rack. I think that artists who paint, poets/authors who write, chefs who cook, songwriters who write songs, programmers who write code, designers--all who create can appreciate the fruits of their own labor can understand how much fun it is to actually make something.

This discussion has motivated me to make some pics of my PC conversion and post them soon. If making an X-Kilt is as much fun as that was, I plan to start soon.

GREAT freakin' post. Couldn't have said it any better.

[cavscout]

Ya know, after chewing on this a bit longer,

I run into posers all the time at Highland games wearing top of the line kit. Many of them also carry badges that say "kilt police"

My point being, the guy that took the time to "build" his wardrobe, may be the one who has some very good knowledge about the topic we are all striving to emulate. The one who ran out a "bought" his kit may not be what he portrays. "such cheaply bought nobility?

[Panache]

Here is my thought on formal jackets (one I developed with conversations with Alan H.)

If you want a perfect Prince Charlie, buy a real Prince Charlie. Trying to make another kind of jacket into one is never going to work.

However I have a converted tux with tails that is pretty close to a PC jacket. I don't feel the least like a posser. Because it isn't a PC jacket. It is a formal kilt jacket though. There are many different styles of tuxedos out there, why does there only have to be two formal kilt jackets?

Cheers

Jamie

[Chef]

In my hypothetical case---what you have is a respectable dark suit---that is the "proper" thing to do; that's why it's a "trick question." Don't take my word for it: ask Judith Martin (Miss Manners) who I'm sure you will agree is the antithesis of whatever-you-like.

I was actually aware to what you were referring. However the idea behind wearing a respectable dark suit in lieu of a dinner jacket is meant for those who find themselves without and who don't have time to get one. It is not meant as "green light" for someone who chooses not to get one. With the cost of inexpensive tuxes or rentals it is unlikely that someone with a suitable dark suit would be unable to afford some sort of tux. The only time a dark suit is considered fully acceptable next to a dinner jacket is if the dress is listed as black tie optional and even then you should wear a dinner jacket if you have one.

An example, dinner jackets are required at our lodge for certain functions. A member would not be allowed entrance if not properly attired. The rules are bent (in the way you suggest) for a visiting Brother who may not be from a lodge with the same rules.

But being well dressed and thrifty is always a good thing. As a working musician, the tux I wore for about 30 years was acquired for less than the pleated shirt I wore with it. Theres a nice sale on tux separates at Jos. A. Bank.

A perfect example of why an inexpensive dinner jacket is a better choice than a cheap waiter's coat for formal wear while you are saving for your formal kilt attire.

[fluter]

I was actually aware to what you were referring.

I was pretty sure that you were! Having dropped that "teaser" for the group, I felt it only fair to explain.

[Caddy One]

Chef.........You have my vote on this matter....could not agree more...