Six or Seven Celtic nations?

[PEB]

France is become one country by her kings' willing (act of Villers-Cotteret by King Francis Ist in 1537 for instance). THe French Revolution and Empire (1789-1815) made the country one Nation under the same and equal Law. There is no Britannic nation. Britanny is but an essential part of the French Nation under the Republic.

The Six-Nations Rugby championship come from French-British History. It was formerly the Five-Nations. The four British Nation (England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland) and France. But remember Edward IIIrd's claim to be King of France during the XIVth century! Remember the Chapter hall of Westminster abbey! Remember the Fleurs-de-Lys close from the Lion guardant in the old Royal Standard. In this way, France is a British nation too!

[Galician]

Wow, I don't know whether or not I should be glad to have missed this thread when it was hotter.

I thank TKW for pointing out that traditional Galician culture includes many elements common in the wider Celtic culture. While the language (yes, there is a Galician language) might be more Romance-based than those of the British Isles, it still carries some of the Celtic roots. This is more true of the arts of the region, both visual and musical, such as bagpipes. Considering how few residents of Ireland speak anything other than English, though, I do find the linguistic argument bemusing.

I found it VERY interesting to have learned (through this site) of some ancient Irish texts which tell of how the first Irish went to that island from Galicia.

[Riverkilt]

Okay, help me here.

My own Northern Arizona Celtic Heritage Society lists EIGHT nations.

Which one(s) of these don't belong on the shorter lists?

Asturias

Brittany

Cornwall

Ireland

Galacia

Isle of Man

Scotland

Wales

And who want's to tell the folks that don't "qualify" that they dont?

Ron

[Galician]

Guess which one they forgot, Ron!!

[Bob C]

Okay, help me here.

My own Northern Arizona Celtic Heritage Society lists EIGHT nations.

Which one(s) of these don't belong on the shorter lists?

Asturias

Brittany

Cornwall

Ireland

Isle of Man

Scotland

Wales

Ireland

And who want's to tell the folks that don't "qualify" that they dont?

Ron

Well, Ron, you've counted Ireland twice.

[Riverkilt]

Sorry, fixed it...was just copying a list too....I sure loved my drinking, but now I miss my brain cells.

...question remains...which of the 8 don't make the 7 list or the 6 list and why?

Ron

[slohairt]

As far as organisations like The Celtic League and most Celtic Studies university programs are concerned, it is language that defines the criteria. Celtic, like Germanic and other European groups is defined as ethno-linguistic. Therefore, regions like Galicia and Asturias are out, as they have no Celtic language to speak of, be it dead or otherwise.

That is not to say that they don't have Celtic heritage, just no Celtic language for the better part of the last millennia. Not enough of it was even recorded to make a reconstruction. It is interesting to note that the French, and possibly the English could make this claim also.

Cornwall and the Isle of Man just slip through the net because of preservation attempts made in the late 19th Century. Cornish did die out as a spoken language of the community in the late 18th or 19th Century, depending on what sources you believe. Regardless of when exactly the Cornish language died in that 100 year span is irrelevant, because it was revived by the efforts of people like Henry Jenner. Today, they are a small number of people who have Cornish as their first language. The Manx language is in somewhat similar situation, though I believe the last truly native speaker died in 1974. The native speakers today are the children of the people who started the revival.

So here you have the list (based on ethno-linguistic criteria):

Ireland (Éire)
Scotland (Alba)
Isle of Man (Ellin Vannin)
Wales (Cymru)
Cornwall (Kernow)
Brittany (Breizh)

[seanboy]

Hello I am a long time observer of xmarks,I am 23 year old scot from glasgow. And I had to enter this discussion regarding the preposterous claims that ireland, scotland etc are celtic.

As far as I am aware the celts are a linguistic and cultural group, most of you I expect will be aware of this.
celtic culture has ceased to be for centuries and centuries only handfuls of people speak scots gaelic and as far as I am concerned playing fiddle music. Drinking guinness and speaking broken phrases of gaelic does not constitute celtic culture.
We in scotland live in a post celtic era (about 1000 years post celtic era), I have had people make ridiculous assumptions about celtic culture such as kilts being celtic dress and such.

I am a scottish nationalist, I am proud of my celtic ancestors and such but I would never describe myself as a celt because I am simply not. The actual term celtic itself is a conjured victorian phrase. The romans never called the celts 'celts' and the scots, irish, welsh etc. never called themselves celtic either.

this silly notion that their are 6 nations in the world that are the last bastions of celtic identity is ridiculous, the saxons didnt even displace the celts as previously thought in england due to dna surveys and reasaearch, we are not more celtic then the germans, french etc.

I read in a previous post that some band honoured america with being the 7th nation because of celtic , I mean what is this about. this implies the celts are a racial group which they are not

anyway nice to meet you and I hope I can debate with anyone not agrreing with my posts, look forward to talking, debating and learning from you all.

[ANXO LUVAS]

Dear Slohairt,

First of all, thank you for your comments. It has been a pleasure to read them, but I would like to add some information.

You are right, we lost our celtic language 10 centuries ago and it was replaced by a roman language, nowadays we speak Galician.

Although Galician is a "romance" (language with roman origin), it has hundreds of words from celtic origin (for example: atrancar, banco, baraza, beizo, berce / berzo, bico, billa, borrón (montón), boto, bragas, braña, centola, vidoeiro and virar are of celtic origin). Besides, our music, food, traditional games and sports, legends, etc. are celtic.

As a mather of fact, the celtic legend compilation Lebor Gabála Érenn (IX century) states that the Goidelic Celts departed from the Galician port ot of Brigantium comanded by Brat, the youngest son of Breogan, celtic king of Galicia.

Finally, I have to say that I have been to Galicia a few days ago (not in Galicia, Iberian peninsula but in the other Galicia, Poland (not Turkey).

Best Regards to all of you,

Slan go foill!