Civilian Spats

[Chef]

Sorry to disagree, but none of the top civilian bands wear spats. SFU, Field Marshall, Shotts, 78th, SLOT, etc. Jackets, vests, and solid colored hose. As far as pipers are concerned, there's "no 1" (plaid, doublet, spats, horsehair sporran, etc.) and "daywear" (jacket, hose, day or evening sporran, ghillies, etc.). "No 2" isn't a widely used term. In general, no 1 is for parades, "daywear" is for the competition circle. The only legitimate competitive band in the military is RSDG, and they wear daywear on the field. Even then, they're not really a "top" band.
As for piping in the US, I can't think of ANY band in grade I or II that wears spats. If they do, its with plaids and doublets. Spats/hose tops and button down shirts tend to be the domain of street bands.

Well I will differ to your knowledge of specific bands as I don't know them by name. Also I guess No. 2 dress is more a military term rather than a civilian. I do agree that military spats look better with a military uniform in my opinion. By the way, the Scottish Regiment uniform code does call for spats below No. 1 dress I think they look fine. Also, I am sure that I have seen non-military bands using a similar uniform.

As to your second point, I wouldn't Harry Lauder as representative of traditional Scottish values. He was a hyperbolic "stage" Scot, and I think most would agree that he was more vaudevillian than an accurate representation of a typical Scot. Thats sort of like using Charlie Chaplin as your benchmark for modern men's style. Doesn't apply. Andrew Carnegie was a Scot, and I've seen him in trousers more often than tartan.

I will strongly disagree with your characterisation of Sir Harry however. There is no doubt that he was a vaudevillian and many of his costumes are not what anyone would wear. However he also took his position as an unofficial Scottish ambassador very seriously. He wore a kilt as a symbol of Scotland and it became one of his trademarks. He certainly wore it more frequently than most but when not wearing a characters costume, he wore the kilt as it was worn in the day. Spats were worn by civilians at the time and I have seen several pictures over the years of men wearing spats with kilts during that period. So as I said they look old fashioned.

Andrew Carnegie was indeed a Scot, a past president of the St. Andrew's Society of NY (a group for which I have served as Chairman of the Board of Managers) and he rarely wore a kilt. He also spent a great deal of his life as an American business man. While all that is interesting I don't see how that reflects on how Sir Harry wore his kilt. I'm not suggesting that what Sir Harry wore was representative of what the Scots wore day to day. However he wore his kilt in the way it was worn during the period, just more frequently.

I'm really not trying to be rude, just stating an opinion and why I think it's valid. Oddly enough, a very similar discussion is going on now on the Dunsire piping forums.

I didn't think you were being rude. That's what a forum is all about...sharing knowledge and ideas. You are obviously are well versed in pipe bands and competition and I expect that you will have much to ad to this forum. I do thank you for the opinion on civilian spats. I wouldn't have put the thread up if I didn't want replies. Where I think you may have crossed the line was on your comments about pipers and their uniform. I'm not a piper but I can see where that might be considered insulting.