Six or Seven Celtic nations?

[Riverkilt]

Okay, help me here.

My own Northern Arizona Celtic Heritage Society lists EIGHT nations.

Which one(s) of these don't belong on the shorter lists?

Asturias

Brittany

Cornwall

Ireland

Galacia

Isle of Man

Scotland

Wales

And who want's to tell the folks that don't "qualify" that they dont?

Ron

[Galician]

Guess which one they forgot, Ron!!

[Bob C]

Okay, help me here.

My own Northern Arizona Celtic Heritage Society lists EIGHT nations.

Which one(s) of these don't belong on the shorter lists?

Asturias

Brittany

Cornwall

Ireland

Isle of Man

Scotland

Wales

Ireland

And who want's to tell the folks that don't "qualify" that they dont?

Ron

Well, Ron, you've counted Ireland twice.

[Riverkilt]

Sorry, fixed it...was just copying a list too....I sure loved my drinking, but now I miss my brain cells.

...question remains...which of the 8 don't make the 7 list or the 6 list and why?

Ron

[slohairt]

As far as organisations like The Celtic League and most Celtic Studies university programs are concerned, it is language that defines the criteria. Celtic, like Germanic and other European groups is defined as ethno-linguistic. Therefore, regions like Galicia and Asturias are out, as they have no Celtic language to speak of, be it dead or otherwise.

That is not to say that they don't have Celtic heritage, just no Celtic language for the better part of the last millennia. Not enough of it was even recorded to make a reconstruction. It is interesting to note that the French, and possibly the English could make this claim also.

Cornwall and the Isle of Man just slip through the net because of preservation attempts made in the late 19th Century. Cornish did die out as a spoken language of the community in the late 18th or 19th Century, depending on what sources you believe. Regardless of when exactly the Cornish language died in that 100 year span is irrelevant, because it was revived by the efforts of people like Henry Jenner. Today, they are a small number of people who have Cornish as their first language. The Manx language is in somewhat similar situation, though I believe the last truly native speaker died in 1974. The native speakers today are the children of the people who started the revival.

So here you have the list (based on ethno-linguistic criteria):

Ireland (Éire)
Scotland (Alba)
Isle of Man (Ellin Vannin)
Wales (Cymru)
Cornwall (Kernow)
Brittany (Breizh)

[seanboy]

Hello I am a long time observer of xmarks,I am 23 year old scot from glasgow. And I had to enter this discussion regarding the preposterous claims that ireland, scotland etc are celtic.

As far as I am aware the celts are a linguistic and cultural group, most of you I expect will be aware of this.
celtic culture has ceased to be for centuries and centuries only handfuls of people speak scots gaelic and as far as I am concerned playing fiddle music. Drinking guinness and speaking broken phrases of gaelic does not constitute celtic culture.
We in scotland live in a post celtic era (about 1000 years post celtic era), I have had people make ridiculous assumptions about celtic culture such as kilts being celtic dress and such.

I am a scottish nationalist, I am proud of my celtic ancestors and such but I would never describe myself as a celt because I am simply not. The actual term celtic itself is a conjured victorian phrase. The romans never called the celts 'celts' and the scots, irish, welsh etc. never called themselves celtic either.

this silly notion that their are 6 nations in the world that are the last bastions of celtic identity is ridiculous, the saxons didnt even displace the celts as previously thought in england due to dna surveys and reasaearch, we are not more celtic then the germans, french etc.

I read in a previous post that some band honoured america with being the 7th nation because of celtic , I mean what is this about. this implies the celts are a racial group which they are not

anyway nice to meet you and I hope I can debate with anyone not agrreing with my posts, look forward to talking, debating and learning from you all.

[Bugbear]

Welcome from the cactus patch, seanboy
.
seanboy
, I do see your point, but I would also point out that the only world you can know is the one your brain is reconstructing for you to observe. Each of us has a flaud copy of the world in our head. If someone wants to view the world with six celtic nations or what ever, it's not as bad as wanting to enslave some one with your own views. In otherwords, you will only see the world as I tell you you will see it because I know the one true truth. Heard it in college all the time.
[

[slohairt]

Hello I am a long time observer of xmarks,I am 23 year old scot from glasgow. And I had to enter this discussion regarding the preposterous claims that ireland, scotland etc are celtic.

As far as I am aware the celts are a linguistic and cultural group, most of you I expect will be aware of this.
celtic culture has ceased to be for centuries and centuries only handfuls of people speak scots gaelic and as far as I am concerned playing fiddle music. Drinking guinness and speaking broken phrases of gaelic does not constitute celtic culture.
We in scotland live in a post celtic era (about 1000 years post celtic era), I have had people make ridiculous assumptions about celtic culture such as kilts being celtic dress and such.

I am a scottish nationalist, I am proud of my celtic ancestors and such but I would never describe myself as a celt because I am simply not. The actual term celtic itself is a conjured victorian phrase. The romans never called the celts 'celts' and the scots, irish, welsh etc. never called themselves celtic either.

this silly notion that their are 6 nations in the world that are the last bastions of celtic identity is ridiculous, the saxons didnt even displace the celts as previously thought in england due to dna surveys and reasaearch, we are not more celtic then the germans, french etc.

I read in a previous post that some band honoured america with being the 7th nation because of celtic , I mean what is this about. this implies the celts are a racial group which they are not

anyway nice to meet you and I hope I can debate with anyone not agrreing with my posts, look forward to talking, debating and learning from you all.

Dia Dhuit, A Gharsúin Seán!

I don't think the claims that Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, Brittany, and the Isle of Man are Celtic nations is preposterous. If so, then it is being perpetuated in fine universities throughout the world! It's a bit like saying that Germany is not a Germanic nation.

As I posted before, the Celts are considered an ethno-linguistic grouping. They share a degree of commonality in cultural traditions and their languages are related: Goidelic (Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Manx) and Brythonic (Welsh, Cornish, Breton).

The Celts themselves, particularly the Goidelic peoples, readily assimilated and absorbed aspects of other non-related cultures. (Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, etc.) To them being "Celtic" was a cultural badge, not a racial one. DNA study is certainly fascinating, but ultimately means nothing when considering culture. You're correct in stating that the Anglo-Saxons didn't displace the native Britons of the region we now call England. However, they definitely exterminated their culture!

An Irish-speaker of African descent born and bred in the Gaeltacht deserves to be considered a member of the Irish (Celtic) community as much as someone of Irish descent who knows nothing more about Irish culture than shillelaghs and donkeys. (More so, perhaps!) Respectfully, people in the Gaeltacht and the Gaidhealtachd do more than swill Guinness and speak "broken" phrases of Gaelic!

Celtic fiddle playing is Celtic culture, as is wearing a kilt. They were customs developed in a Celtic nation by people of Celtic origin. I should think that would fit anyone's description of culture.

I'm not sure what "post-Celtic" means. Celtic culture did not disappear a thousand years ago. In fact, in the year 1008, Celtic culture was managing quite nicely in its respective areas. The Celtic languages (and their attendant culture) really began their decline a few hundred years ago. Irish, for example, only ceased to be the majority language of the Irish populace in the mid-19th Century! That's no so long ago, really.

As for the term Celtic, it comes from the Latin Celtae which comes from the Greek Keltoi.

[seanboy]

deleted

[seanboy]

Dia Dhuit, A Gharsúin Seán!

The Celts themselves, particularly the Goidelic peoples, readily assimilated and absorbed aspects of other non-related cultures. (Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, etc.) To them being "Celtic" was a cultural badge, not a racial one. DNA study is certainly fascinating, but ultimately means nothing when considering culture. You're correct in stating that the Anglo-Saxons didn't displace the native Britons of the region we now call England. However, they definitely exterminated their culture!

I have lived my whole life in scotland and I have not witnessed at anytime, culture that can be deemed celtic [/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]
An Irish-speaker of African descent born and bred in the Gaeltacht deserves to be considered a member of the Irish (Celtic) community as much as someone of Irish descent who knows nothing more about Irish culture than shillelaghs and donkeys. (More so, perhaps!) Respectfully, people in the Gaeltacht and the Gaidhealtachd do more than swill Guinness and speak "broken" phrases of Gaelic! [/QUOTE]



The differance between the ethnic african and the irish descendant is that the african is irish while the descendant is not he is merely a descendant.

l