Six or Seven Celtic nations?

[Bugbear]

Oops, I just reallized that you were welcoming PED, and not Ted, te he. KInd of wondered why you were welcoming me at this point,doh! Sorry.

Yeah, Ted. This is one really great place for a vast storehouse of knowledge, thought, and foolishness, too. (Some of the knowledge is what my sister used to term "useless knowledge"), but if there's something you want to know, you can probably find it here.

This is a really great place, and the range of interests and expertise is astounding.

And I hope everyone understood my little joke when I implied that I knew all that stuff about the Celtic nations; I had no clue.

[Bob C]

Okay, help me here.

My own Northern Arizona Celtic Heritage Society lists EIGHT nations.

Which one(s) of these don't belong on the shorter lists?

Asturias

Brittany

Cornwall

Ireland

Isle of Man

Scotland

Wales

Ireland

And who want's to tell the folks that don't "qualify" that they dont?

Ron

Well, Ron, you've counted Ireland twice.

[Riverkilt]

Sorry, fixed it...was just copying a list too....I sure loved my drinking, but now I miss my brain cells.

...question remains...which of the 8 don't make the 7 list or the 6 list and why?

Ron

[slohairt]

As far as organisations like The Celtic League and most Celtic Studies university programs are concerned, it is language that defines the criteria. Celtic, like Germanic and other European groups is defined as ethno-linguistic. Therefore, regions like Galicia and Asturias are out, as they have no Celtic language to speak of, be it dead or otherwise.

That is not to say that they don't have Celtic heritage, just no Celtic language for the better part of the last millennia. Not enough of it was even recorded to make a reconstruction. It is interesting to note that the French, and possibly the English could make this claim also.

Cornwall and the Isle of Man just slip through the net because of preservation attempts made in the late 19th Century. Cornish did die out as a spoken language of the community in the late 18th or 19th Century, depending on what sources you believe. Regardless of when exactly the Cornish language died in that 100 year span is irrelevant, because it was revived by the efforts of people like Henry Jenner. Today, they are a small number of people who have Cornish as their first language. The Manx language is in somewhat similar situation, though I believe the last truly native speaker died in 1974. The native speakers today are the children of the people who started the revival.

So here you have the list (based on ethno-linguistic criteria):

Ireland (Éire)
Scotland (Alba)
Isle of Man (Ellin Vannin)
Wales (Cymru)
Cornwall (Kernow)
Brittany (Breizh)

[seanboy]

Hello I am a long time observer of xmarks,I am 23 year old scot from glasgow. And I had to enter this discussion regarding the preposterous claims that ireland, scotland etc are celtic.

As far as I am aware the celts are a linguistic and cultural group, most of you I expect will be aware of this.
celtic culture has ceased to be for centuries and centuries only handfuls of people speak scots gaelic and as far as I am concerned playing fiddle music. Drinking guinness and speaking broken phrases of gaelic does not constitute celtic culture.
We in scotland live in a post celtic era (about 1000 years post celtic era), I have had people make ridiculous assumptions about celtic culture such as kilts being celtic dress and such.

I am a scottish nationalist, I am proud of my celtic ancestors and such but I would never describe myself as a celt because I am simply not. The actual term celtic itself is a conjured victorian phrase. The romans never called the celts 'celts' and the scots, irish, welsh etc. never called themselves celtic either.

this silly notion that their are 6 nations in the world that are the last bastions of celtic identity is ridiculous, the saxons didnt even displace the celts as previously thought in england due to dna surveys and reasaearch, we are not more celtic then the germans, french etc.

I read in a previous post that some band honoured america with being the 7th nation because of celtic , I mean what is this about. this implies the celts are a racial group which they are not

anyway nice to meet you and I hope I can debate with anyone not agrreing with my posts, look forward to talking, debating and learning from you all.

[Bugbear]

Welcome from the cactus patch, seanboy
.
seanboy
, I do see your point, but I would also point out that the only world you can know is the one your brain is reconstructing for you to observe. Each of us has a flaud copy of the world in our head. If someone wants to view the world with six celtic nations or what ever, it's not as bad as wanting to enslave some one with your own views. In otherwords, you will only see the world as I tell you you will see it because I know the one true truth. Heard it in college all the time.
[

[seanboy]

thats true ted people should feel free to believe what they believe.However when people hear the world celtic they have very misguided and warped views about what celtic culture was, who were the celts etc.

I prefer truth and fact over fallacy

[seanboy]

I think my posts are being deleted ?

[Riverkilt]

I see your posts Seanboy.

I really hate dictionary definitions...but gonna do it anyway...from my olde Websters Collegiate published back in 1961....in the U.S.A.

"Celt 1. An individual of any of the various Celtic-speaking peoples, including the ancient Gauls and Britons and the modern Irish, Scots, Welsh, and Bretons. 2. A member of a race of central and western Europe described by the ancients as tall and blond."

Hardly a thorough definition. I'm guessing it depends on what criteria you use, what your focus is, and how you slice and dice the peoples involved.

Hence, many answers and many more opinions.

Including a basketball team in Boston...

Ron

[Bugbear]

I'm not sure, seanboy, I still see your originil post that I was responding to... Well, hope you enjoy the forum.
[
And Ron, we're all part of the grand lobotimy, so ya.