Six or Seven Celtic nations?

[seanboy]

the first mention of whisky is from the 15th century though it is likely that it is older than this, There is no evidence that the celts drank whisky.

The celts there is no evidence that the celts took part in highland dancing

the celtic culture was oral as you know so I have no idea where you got celtic food from

Celtic art ill give you that one

People walking down the street it is more than likely that NONE of these people speak gaelic, not to mention typical scottish ethnicity is nordic, germanic, saxon, iberian etc. so ethnically they are as mixed up as ALL europeans. There is nothing that distinguishes them from other countries that were celtic (which was most of europe).

bagpipe tI dont know if the celts played bagpipes I will have to lok it up, I do know they played a large blow horn in an s shape that resembled some kind of mythological serpent.

I have to say that the scots ceased being celtic many, many years ago. I am talking centuries and centuries ago. celtic culture does not exist anymore.

[slohairt]

Indeed, you are correct, seanboy. Whisky/whiskey was first mentioned in the early part of the 15th Century. Most scholars agree, however, that it probably existed for several centuries before that. The name itself is derived from the Gaelic uisce beatha (IRISH) / uisge beatha (SCOTTISH GAELIC). I consider the Irish and the Highland Scots to be Celtic people, therefore I consider whisk(e)y to be a Celtic drink.

I am no expert on Highland Dancing, and I will agree that much of it likely derives from 19th and 20th Century creations. (Much like Irish dancing.) However, it source and terminology leads to Gaelic origin. Gaelic = Celtic.

Celtic culture was not completely oral-based. Before Christianisation, there was the Ogham alphabet. After Christianisation, the Irish language (and therefore by extension, Scottish Gaelic and Manx) became Europe's oldest literary language after Greek and Latin. Much of our knowledge is gleaned from the writings of these monks.

Celtic food is whatever food was traditionally cooked in those regions regarded as Celtic. That's what traditional food is by everyone else's definition. I consider my family's Irish recipes to be Celtic.

Nordic, Germanic, and Saxon are all Germanic. As are Angles and Normans, who likely make up a good portion of the collective Scottish ancestry. The Iberian peninsula was traditionally regarded in Irish/Gaelic mythology as the ancestral homeland of the Goidelic peoples. Celtic = Iberian = Goidelic = Gaelic = Irish/Scottish/Manx. Recent DNA studies are apparently proving this to be true.

Bagpipes are/were common throughout Europe, though I will wager that some of the features of the Great Highland Pipes, Scottish Smallpipes, Irish Uilleann Pipes and some of the music performed is uniquely Gaelic. Gaelic = Celtic. They are many pipers on this forum, I defer to them.

I'll bring it back around to kilts for a moment! To suggest that the kilt (the modern descendant of the belted plaid/feileadh mhòr) is not Celtic dress because the ancient Celts did not wear them, is like claiming that lederhosen are not Germanic because the Visigoths or the Jutes didn't wear them!

People only vanish when their cultures are exterminated and/or assimilated completely. All six Celtic languages still survive (in written form, no less) and aspects of Celtic culture ranging from art, music, and craftsmanship still survive. I will grant that they are in danger of extinction, but they are by no means lost to the mists of time. The fact that we are on this forum discussing it is proof of that. One Celt to another. Or one Gael to another if you prefer.

[Bugbear]

Thus the spirit is born.

[slohairt]

Indeedily-doo! The spirit o the kilt!

I'm not trying to come across as snarky or harsh or anything like that in my posts. I'm just stating that, from an academic point-of-view, these cultures are very much alive. If one wants to consider themselves Celtic, so be it. If not, then don't. Even if one has no tangible connection, physical or otherwise, create one. It's just as good as any. I'll certainly consider you an honourary Celt.

That brings me to an interesting point. I've noted that, among the younger generations of these countries, your place of birth is of paramount importance when determining who and what you are. Among the older generations, who frequently have relatives abroad, this is not often the case. Though I live in Canada, I was born in Ireland. When I am presented in a social setting with a Canadian who claims partial or whole Irish heritage, do I diminish his or her claim? Certainly not. He or she has as much right to be considered Irish as I do. When I am presented to an Irish person "fresh off the boat" they say I am Canadian because of how I sound. This happened when I returned to live in Ireland as well. When I state I was born in Co. Donegal, they say "oh, okay, then you're Irish." As if that mattered.

Sometimes we cherish things a bit more once they're gone. I think that's all these people are really searching for.

[Bugbear]

slohairt , this is an interesting observation you bring up with the place of birth. Here in the U.S. we have a ethnic label thing going on. Many of us were quite soundly born in America, but there is a splitting off into groups like Scottish-American. It's a bit confusing. We also have tribes of people such as the Zuni and Dine' who have been labeled Native-American.
Gees, I lost half the post...
Anyway, what I was about to ask is how are you Non-Americans, there I go labeling, viewing this labeling of everyone and everthing.

I brought up the Zuni and Dine' tribes because I partly grew up with people of those tribes. Throw in there Latino and pueblo. It was all mixed up.

[slohairt]

But there is a...?

Much the same occurs here in Canada as well. As far as I'm concerned, once one has Canadian citizenship, they are considered a Canadian. No matter where they come from. Such is the nature of our multi-cultural New World nations. Unless you are aboriginal/first nations/indian, you are either an immigrant or descended from immigrants. Our citizenship and shared experience is what brings us together.

[Bugbear]

I'm sorry, slohairt, something is loging me off if I don't keep posting, then editing, then posting the edit, then editing. I'll go back and try to finnish.
Ok I added a little more to that first post, and I see your post.
Um, I'm not hearing the term "Celtic-Scot," or "Celtic-Irish," but I hear "Celtic-American" quite a bit.

[slohairt]

That's OK, it happens to me too!

[slohairt]

I have no problem with the labelling or identifying with your ethnic origin, as long as it doesn't get in the way of things. I won't get too into that, because it would be political!

I consider myself Canadian first, Irish second. It's funny, when I returned to Ireland in my early twenties, I set forth to reclaim my lost heritage, the culture that my parents had chucked in the garbage, so to speak. When I got there I felt I was more Irish than Canadian. When I left I realised I was more Canadian (and by extension, North American) than Irish.

[Bugbear]

Ok, this will take a few editings to pull off because of this log off problem I am having, but here we go.
[QUOTE=slohairt;469146]

Much the same occurs here in Canada as well. As far as I'm concerned, once one has Canadian citizenship, they are considered a Canadian. No matter where they come from. Such is the nature of our multi-cultural New World nations. Unless you are aboriginal/first nations/indian, you are either an immigrant or descended from immigrants.

Understood. Although, all people of the "new world" are of immigrants: First Nation walked the rest hopped on boats, although that view is changing also. Oh, who knows anymore.


QUOTE=slohairt; Our citizenship and shared experience is what brings us together.[/QUOTE

Ok, I believe that this whole world, all the people, are right on the edge of a cultural evolution. Kind of a picking up of the reversing swing that started perhaps with the loss of the library of Alexandria and all kinds of aughful things like that on into the loss of South American pre-conquest history stuf... We don't even know what we don't know. Anyway. A possibility to move from type 0 civilization to type one as Mitieu coku says or how ever you spell his name. Like maybe even um taking our evolution into our own hands in a scientific way, don't know. We might not care about genetics too much in the future for any number of reasons. (A nice gental blending of all until we don't know who and where we came from.)]