kilts in Scotland

[belsen]

i just want to say me view on the "what makes a scot" discussion. i think heritage pride and root seeking pride is a lode of rubbish. in the modern world there are not alot of cultural differences unless they r baced on religion or if u dig deep especially rich countries.

i think that people within alot of societies in "the new world" and even other places. that search there roots and create pride from it are escaping from the boring culture around them and want to identify them selfs as something els. its the same with sub-culters of today people become punk, goth, scene kid, rude boy. cuz they r bored of modern society.

i ware a kilt not with pride not with respect but also not with ignorance i just wear a kilt cuz it fits in with MY culture and my interest in celtic culture

i think that national culture is dieing its turning into religious culture, class culture and sub-cultures. i mean for example take a look at the streets of scotland i bet if u were shown a pic of people doing day to day business with no clue of where it was show it to 100 diff people i doubt hardly any one could say it is scotland and they are Scottish people if i went back in time 100 or 200 years and did the same thing it would be opposite results. im not just picking on scotland it could be most countries.

y go back to your roots and follow there paths or ways when your roots are the only thing in your life that u dont control and that matters the least. pride in heritage is like a mask that eats into the face.

(sorry about spelling im dislexic)

[gilmore]

Well said, Belsen.

[sharpdressedscot]

i just want to say me view on the "what makes a scot" discussion. i think heritage pride and root seeking pride is a lode of rubbish. in the modern world there are not alot of cultural differences unless they r baced on religion or if u dig deep especially rich countries.

i think that people within alot of societies in "the new world" and even other places. that search there roots and create pride from it are escaping from the boring culture around them and want to identify them selfs as something els. its the same with sub-culters of today people become punk, goth, scene kid, rude boy. cuz they r bored of modern society.

i ware a kilt not with pride not with respect but also not with ignorance i just wear a kilt cuz it fits in with MY culture and my interest in celtic culture

i think that national culture is dieing its turning into religious culture, class culture and sub-cultures. i mean for example take a look at the streets of scotland i bet if u were shown a pic of people doing day to day business with no clue of where it was show it to 100 diff people i doubt hardly any one could say it is scotland and they are Scottish people if i went back in time 100 or 200 years and did the same thing it would be opposite results. im not just picking on scotland it could be most countries.

y go back to your roots and follow there paths or ways when your roots are the only thing in your life that u dont control and that matters the least. pride in heritage is like a mask that eats into the face.

(sorry about spelling im dislexic)

Family roots and heritage can actually be quite important. If you don't know your root, then what can you know. Show you and and a million others hate looking back, but if you don't know the past, then you can't know the future. It kinda goes along with that: What happened in the past will happen again if you don't learn from it.

Also, roots are important because of identity. It says what your heritage is, it gives people pride, to be proud of what they are.

Maybe I am bored with this modern society or maybe I'm part of it but want to be different. But I don't wear my kilt to be different, I wear it because, not only it's my heritage, but I can wear it with pride and don't give a crap what you think of it. I'm proud of my roots and heritage.

[Oldhiker]

Maybe I am bored with this modern society or maybe I'm part of it but want to be different. But I don't wear my kilt to be different, I wear it because, not only it's my heritage, but I can wear it with pride and don't give a crap what you think of it. I'm proud of my roots and heritage.

Ya i agree, if you don't know where you have been you wont know where you are going.

If I could roll back the clock 1000 years that would be so much fun knowing what I do now

[beloitpiper]

Yeah, belsen, I have to disagree....with basically everything you said. Here's why.

in the modern world there are not alot of cultural differences unless they r baced on religion or if u dig deep especially rich countries.

Cultural difference? What about language, sports, clothing, or music? Ok, maybe music has ties with religion, but the other have developed totally separate from religion. I have no idea why you dragged religion into this, because it has very little (if anything) to do with kilts and pride in one's heritage.

i think that people within alot of societies in "the new world" and even other places. that search there roots and create pride from it are escaping from the boring culture around them and want to identify them selfs as something els. its the same with sub-culters of today people become punk, goth, scene kid, rude boy. cuz they r bored of modern society.

I'm not bored with modern culture. Kilts ARE a modern culture. You asct as if we're all dressing up and acting like it's the 17th century! Highland Games, bagpipes, and other Scottish events are just as strong today as they ever were. No, this is not a dead culture. It is part of our modern culture, and I am not trying to escape reality.

i think that national culture is dieing its turning into religious culture, class culture and sub-cultures. i mean for example take a look at the streets of scotland i bet if u were shown a pic of people doing day to day business with no clue of where it was show it to 100 diff people i doubt hardly any one could say it is scotland and they are Scottish people if i went back in time 100 or 200 years and did the same thing it would be opposite results. im not just picking on scotland it could be most countries.

I'm not exactly sure what you said here, but yeah, you're probably right. If you were to take a photo of a Scottish street, it might look like a street in England or Ireland. But that does not mean that it's turning into a religious culture, class culture, or sub-culture.

And another thing, class-culture has always been there! You act like lower class and upper-class is a new thing. Ever since the BEGINNING OF CIVILIZATION, there has been separate classes with separate, distinct cultures. And religious culture. I'm not sure what you're saying here either, but religion has always had a major role in shaping national culture. I don't know what religion you're aiming at, but I think you're a bit confused. In fact, I think religion has less influence now than it ever has.

y go back to your roots and follow there paths or ways when your roots are the only thing in your life that u dont control and that matters the least. pride in heritage is like a mask that eats into the face.

Even if I lose everything, I'll still have my heritage. Nobody can EVER take that away from me. My family and ancestors separate me from everybody else in the world, and it is why I'm me. I think it matters MOST. Why does it eat into my face?


I'm just really confused. If you hate roots and heritage and and think that national culture is just a mask to hide from modern culture and that religion is taking over national culture, why wear a kilt? Seems a bit...counter-intuitive, doesn't it?

[Phil]

This subject seems to come up regularly and I see it as part of the misconception the rest of the world has about Scots and their customs (and I am not including the majority who actually think we are English!). Scots see themselves as a modern, forward-looking society, not some mist-shrouded anachronism leaping from glen to glen in a ridiculous parody of "Brigadoon". Apart from a few tourist guides, kilt shop employees and, yes I have to say it, American tourists, few actual Scots wear the kilt on a daily basis. For one thing it costs too much to risk it getting torn or stained and for another most work places have dress codes which discourage it. For us it is a dress for special occasions when we want to look our best. I was married in a top hat and tails as was the custom in Scotland thirty odd years ago. Few people owned a kilt then and the only ones I ever saw were in pipe bands and on the occasional boy scout. I am sorry to disappoint but probably the last place you can expect to see a kilt is in Scotland as it genuinely is not worn regularly by people here.

[Monkey@Arms]

This subject seems to come up regularly and I see it as part of the misconception the rest of the world has about Scots and their customs (and I am not including the majority who actually think we are English!). Scots see themselves as a modern, forward-looking society, not some mist-shrouded anachronism leaping from glen to glen in a ridiculous parody of "Brigadoon". Apart from a few tourist guides, kilt shop employees and, yes I have to say it, American tourists, few actual Scots wear the kilt on a daily basis. For one thing it costs too much to risk it getting torn or stained and for another most work places have dress codes which discourage it. For us it is a dress for special occasions when we want to look our best. I was married in a top hat and tails as was the custom in Scotland thirty odd years ago. Few people owned a kilt then and the only ones I ever saw were in pipe bands and on the occasional boy scout. I am sorry to disappoint but probably the last place you can expect to see a kilt is in Scotland as it genuinely is not worn regularly by people here.

Might I venture a guess about the reason it comes up? The members of this forum are by definition people who are enthusiastic about kilts. I suspect that on occasion a poster is looking for a place where kilt wearing is a norm, and where better to look than the birthplace of the kilt? They are therefore disappointed to learn that daily wearing of kilts is as infrequent in Scotland as it is in the U.S., if not more so.

Additionally, for those enjoying the comfort and freedom of the kilt for the first time, they may feel that they have discovered something that had been hidden from them all of their pants wearing life, and be thinking, "Boy, if this was my national garb I'd have never adopted pants as my daily wear."

This thread has provided lots of thoughtful explanations as to why the kilt fell out of fashion for daily wear in Scotland.

Best regards,

Jake

[auld argonian]

I would guess, too, that asking about the status of kilt wearing in Scotland has a lot to do with how you would be received if you show up in Scotland wearing a kilt.

A lot of us would certainly love to go to Scotland and, being Xmarksers, would be thinking that they should wear their kilts. Would the locals say, "Oh, you wore a kilt! How nice...do you have Scottish ancestors? Well, we're deeply honored that you thought so much of us to have worn the kilt." or "What the hell are you dressed up for? Oh...another damn tourist! If we went to the USA do you think that we'd be wearing cowboy hats?"

Obviously either extreme and everything in between would be a possibility. In my travels, I often encounter people who say that they have some connection with Chicago and I always try (in spite of my frequent tendency to be terribly anti-social) to be positive and polite and ask about it...when were they here, where did they stay...etc.

I used to have after-work cocktails with a guy who represented the tourist industry of another Celtic country that's just West of Scotland...I don't want to get him in any trouble so I'm circumlocuting the actual name of the country...let's just say it rhymes with "Fireland". Anyway, he used to go on about the descendants of "Firish" emigres that got off the plane and expected expected leprechauns and everybody wearing green...and that there was plenty of that for those who wanted it but there was so much else going on for those who had somewhat more contemporary expectations. Of course, if you're coming over here, you can go to Colonial Williamsburg and any number of "ghost towns" out West...

I'm certainly NOT trying to be negative about anybody's tourist expectations...it's your trip, hope you get what you want. We actually have an "Untouchables" tour and restaurant here in Chicago for all of you gangster fans...come and spend your money.

My roundabout point being that I think that many of us are curious because we wonder how we would be received if we showed up kilted.

Best

AA