kilts in Scotland

[Jock Scot]

I have been thinking about Jake's question and you may be interested in what I wear above the kilt.These days even at the most formal of weddings,funerals,lunches,etc. etc.I wear my green Argyll with or without a waistcoat depending on how formal the event is.Shirts, ties and hose adjusted to the occasion and almost always with a pair of brogues.For a dinner a PC if I am slim enough to get in it!Last night it was a black silver buttoned Argyll without waistcoat instead!Yes its bending the rules a wee tad but as long as you know the rules you are bending you can get away with it!

[starbkjrus]

as of this morning when I filled up, $9.16 a gallon!

Yikes.

(We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.)

[macwilkin]

Started reading this thread when I got off work (& home) around 2:30am this morn'. Very interesting and wish to contribute a little something, but was much too tired then to dig for my source material & all... well it's 11:02am and my cat wouldn't let me sleep, so here I am

Reading about the wearing of the kilt amongst the Lowland regiments earlier reminded me of a book I've had for sometime. It's entitled "The Scottish Regiments" (2nd Edition 1996: HarperCollins Publishers; Glasgow) by Dr. Diana M. Henderson (Territorial Army); with forward by H.R.H. The Duke of Edinburgh K.G K.T.
It details the Scottish regiments at the time (1996) incl. their individual regimental histories, badge & motto, tartans & clan affiliations, battle honours, music & toasts, and allied & affiliated regiments.
Anyhow, I wish to include a few snippets from the introduction and the section on tartans from the chapter of the Royal Highland Fusiliers, I thought it might be of interest to some.

from the introduction:
"...for many people, the bagpipes, the tartan and the glengarries can seem outmoded and contrived, and it is not difficult to find evidence to support this belief. For example, historically, the use of the highland bagpipe is not strictly correct in the context of Lowland regiments who originally used a specifically lowland form of the instrument. The ubiquitous glengarry was only introduced in the 1840s when LtCol. The Hon. Lauderdale Maule of the 79th Cameron Highlanders adapted the old 'humle' bonnet from which the present cap is derived. In addition, it was as late as 1881 before tartan was adopted by the Lowland regiments, at a time when the 'Highland' image and the cloth itself had become widely popular throughout Scotland."

from 'Tartans of the Royal Highland Fusiliers':
"The Royal Scots Fusiliers did not wear tartan until 1881, a factor which makes them no less Scottish. By 1881, however, the wearing of tartan was so popular all over Scotland, not just in the Highlands, that the major army reorganisations in that year were used to introduce tartan into Lowland regiments.
In addition, both the Scots Guards and the Royal Scots Fusiliers were offered the opportunity to wear Government tartan trews. The Royal Scots Fusiliers objected strongly to this without success, but after 1901 they adopted their own tartan, the Government or Black Watch sett with a blue line added."

"For many years the Highland Light Infantry laid claim to the kilt and tried to have it restored to the regiment. Although trews had originally been just as much the mark of a Highlander as the kilt, the adoption of trews by Lowland regiments in 1881 was considered by many to have devalued the trews as Highland garb."

Diana Henderson is the head of the Scots at War Trust and the author of another "must-have" book, Highland Soldier, which is a social study of the Seaforth Highlanders during the late 19th century.

My copy of The Scottish Regiments is very "dog-eared", since I frequently use it as a reference. It provides a very concise history of each Scottish regiment, as well as regimental customs, traditions, tartans, etc. If you can find a copy, it is well worth adding to your library.

Great post, T.E.!

Todd

[Monkey@Arms]

I have been thinking about Jake's question and you may be interested in what I wear above the kilt.These days even at the most formal of weddings,funerals,lunches,etc. etc.I wear my green Argyll with or without a waistcoat depending on how formal the event is.Shirts, ties and hose adjusted to the occasion and almost always with a pair of brogues.

Would that be the outfit you've posted pictured here?



Very sharp.

Best regards,

Jake

[Ian.MacAllan]

Ja, habe ich sie getragen! . . .

Ich auch. I bought my first lederhose when I was an E4 in Germany. They cost about 1/3 of a month's pay but I could afford that because my pay was almost all disposable income. I liked them very much while I was in Germany, but the extra perspiration caused by American heat and humidity quickly rotted the leather.

One of my life's ironies is that seven or eight years after I got out of the Army my income was eight times as high but, because of other obligations such as student debts and mortgage payments, I really could not afford 1/3 of a month's income for a kilt. It was only a few months ago that I discovered that there are now affordable kilts available to me over the web, and that I like the kilt far more than I ever liked lederhosen.


.

[haxtonhouse]

The answer is 6. It's just never the same 6 guys two days in a row. Next question, please? You, the man in the size 5 hat in the back of the room. It's your turn now.

Thanks, Thats all I really needed- looks like I really opened a large can of worms! Interesting thread huh?!

[SteveB]

Jock Scot and other residents of Scotland. I thank you for your answers to questions that are not a regular part of the daily radar screen.
I hope to visit Scotland in the near future. I will only be wearing the one tartan while I am there. One of the purposes of the visit is to visit and be properly measured for a full Prince Charlie kit. I will only be visiting for a fortnight, and expect that the bespoke kit to take several weeks to be completed and shipped to me here in the U.S.
My mother's clan tartan is fairly rare, and as such will be a custom weave. Loccarron (pardon the spelling) says about 3 months lead time. I know that during the visit my kilt will be a different tartan than the one to be shipped to the U.S. Probably the tartan that may be linked way back on my father's side. The self colour kilts will remain on this side of the pond where they belong.
Thank you again for the insight into your cultural vision.
---- Steve

[Jock Scot]

Hello Steve,I hope you have a great time over here,and whilst I have no wish to make a big deal over our differing cultural visions, I thank you for being aware of them! I hope you don't mind me asking, but when are you going to be here and what part of Scotland are you planning to see?I may not see your reply for a couple of weeks as I am away shooting.In the meantime have fun "Jonesing" over all your new Highland attire.

[SteveB]

Jock Scot, and others in Scotland.
I am really looking at the summer of 2009 as the earliest that I can visit. It will also give me a chance to see where my body size ends up. I hope to visit some of the X-Marks people, who are regular posters in person, as well as to commission a real Scottish kit. The jonesing started in 2000 when I visited Ireland in the quest of my ancestral roots to find that some were "Planters Stock", from Scotland. Hence the signature line. The MacNeil of Barra tartans are rarely called for, so generally require a special run. It is also that visit that gave me the chance to identify the tartan of the kilt I have had since I was 12 or 13. It was very dear back then as it is a true Scottish kilt. It fit when I was about 10 stone, I recently hit 14 stone.... Now I am trying to decide on the kilt shop to custom, and am reading the various reviews available. I also am saving up as the U.S. Dollar takes a beating against the Pound Sterling. A part of the trip is to visit Barra as it is the ancestral origin. I would also like to see Dumfries, and possibly stay at P1M's guesthouse for a short visit. I have been invited by a distant cousin to spend an evening in Edinburgh. I have no idea how it will all come together yet. Again, thank you for the insights.

[cessna152towser]

would also like to see Dumfries, and possibly stay at P1M's guesthouse for a short visit. I have been invited by a distant cousin to spend an evening in Edinburgh.

Be sure to come and visit Hawick while you are here - an hour and a half by car from either Dumfries or Edinburgh - the home of the Lochcarron factory; House of Cheviot/The Hawick Sock Company; and also Kenneth Short Hosiery who make many of the kilt hose worn by pipe bands. Drumlanrig's Tower is also well worth a visit as a good example of the fortified tower house occupied by wealthy families during the era of wars between Scotland and England.