Irish Tartans?

[macwilkin]

From what i'm understanding, the Irish in general disapprove of kilts as they don't want their traditions mixed with Scottish ones. I've heard some pretty interesting things from native Irish on the topic. 'Pan-Celtic Garment' or not...

The caveat to that is the growing Ulster-Scots heritage movement in Northern Ireland, though.

It depends on which Irishman you talk to, though.

T.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

[FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B]there is a grassroots (albeit small) group called the Irish Kilt Club seeking to make the kilt the national dress.

There is also a small group that wants to return to Brehon Law.

The thing is, more than half the Irish population is under 25 years of age. These young people see themselves as European, as opposed to the traditional view of fifty years ago when the Irish tended to see themselves in a very limited sense as "Irish".

In the seventy-odd years since independence the Irish people have moved far beyond a false sense of "post-colonialism", and now rightly see themselves as a modern and highly progressive country. As the ethnic composition of the nation shifts due to immigration from the former European east-bloc, as well as an influx of Chinese and Third World peoples, there may be-- at some point in the distant future-- a searching for a cultural identity that would embrace tartan and kilts.

My own view is that this is more likely to be caused by the 60 million in the Irish diaspora, than a populist movement in Ireland.

[BoldHighlander]

There is also a small group that wants to return to Brehon Law.

The thing is, more than half the Irish population is under 25 years of age. These young people see themselves as European, as opposed to the traditional view of fifty years ago when the Irish tended to see themselves in a very limited sense as "Irish".

In the seventy-odd years since independence the Irish people have moved far beyond a false sense of "post-colonialism", and now rightly see themselves as a modern and highly progressive country. As the ethnic composition of the nation shifts due to immigration from the former European east-bloc, as well as an influx of Chinese and Third World peoples, there may be-- at some point in the distant future-- a searching for a cultural identity that would embrace tartan and kilts.

My own view is that this is more likely to be caused by the 60 million in the Irish diaspora, than a populist movement in Ireland.

I essentially agree with your observations but I only mention the Irish Kilt Club because you said:

Frankly, the real situation is that nobody in Ireland really cares about kilts or tartans

(*emphasis mine)

and as pointed out that isn't entirely true, no matter how big or small the movement there are some who do care

[BoldHighlander]

That web page hasn't been updated since '04, and the mailing list doesn't seem to be more than barely ticking over. I suspect it's not much of a movement.

It's my understanding that one of the founding members is very ill, so you might cut them a little slack.

T.

I believe you are correct on the founder being very ill, at least I know he has been.

As for the list not being very active, perhaps not, but as an associate (I'm not a full member) I do receive quarterly newsletters that show otherwise.

[macwilkin]

I believe you are correct on the founder being very ill, at least I know he has been.

As for the list not being very active, perhaps not, but as an associate (I'm not a full member) I do receive quarterly newsletters that show otherwise.

I do as well. I don't agree with everything they say, but I have found a few nuggets of information, such as the stories about the O'Mahoney of Bulgaria and the Bulgarian tartan in their newsletters.

T.

[Mr. MacDougall]

It's my understanding that one of the founding members is very ill, so you might cut them a little slack.

First of all, I'm very sorry this person is ill. I deal with illness, and people who are ill, on a daily basis, so I do understand the meaning and implication of it.

Secondly, my original comment was an observation, not an attack. I have nothing invested in the question of the kilt in Ireland, so it's not my intent to denigrate it, or the movement. I'm simply observing that it doesn't seem to be very active.

Third, I'd like to note that if one person is that important to a movement, it probably isn't much of a movement. But I'm willing to admit I could be wrong about that, since it's obviously important to you, and, as previously mentioned, it's not important, either way, to me. So, sure... all the slack you like.

[Riverkilt]

One of my Irish lines is clear. Matthew Taft came over from County Louth in the 1720s.

An Irish tartan is on my wish list, but down a ways...but which County Louth?

Not sure which mill makes which fashion tartan...but this tartan



Looks way too much like my Ireland's National that I already own to invest in a look alike.

And this County Louth tartan



looks way too busy for my taste and the purple and green combination don't appeal to me.

And, so far, all I've been able to find are swatches of the two versions, no pics of finished kilts.

My Taft line is at the great grandparent level. Its well known and well documented, and I'd like to honor it...but with a tartan I didn't feel weird in or that wasn't a duplication.

Perhaps if the Irish fashion tartans were better known I'd have first invested in a County Louth tartan kilt in green and gold rather than the Ireland's National tartan kilt. Would have solved the problem.

Oh well...the pondering continues. For me, kilt ownership brought with it a tendency to ruminate over tartans.

Ron

[NSpiper]

I have a County Cork kilt, I will post some pics.

[Mike1]

And people wonder why I seem 'terse' and 'short'.

<placing admin's hat on the shelf>

Secondly, my original comment was an observation, not an attack.

Who said it was an 'attack'? Other than you, of course. Todd merely suggested you might not be aware of all the details concerning this group. I've read his post up and down, three times around and simply cannot see where you figure that is an 'attack'.

I'm simply observing that it doesn't seem to be very active.

And it sure looked to me as if Todd simply offered you an explanation for your observation.

Third, I'd like to note that if one person is that important to a movement, it probably isn't much of a movement.

Once again, who called this a 'movement', other than you? I read the words 'grassroots (albeit small) group', with no mention of a 'movement' until you stuck a boot in.

Sorry to have given this so much attention, but I figured so long as people were picking fly specks out of pepper, I may as well give it a go.

And now I'm away, to see if I can perhaps find someone to sing Kumbaya with me this afternoon. Hopefully this thread will be able to get back on track without further interruptions.

Oh yes, if any of the moderators see fit to moderate this post, feel quite free to do as you will.

[Phil]

When I was growing up and visiting Irish relations the only kilts you saw were in pipe bands during the marching season there. They were usually either tartan or plain saffron or green but the locals never wore any tartan despite having Scottish names. Last year I passed a wedding there and all the men were in kilts and I believe that the biggest numbers hiring kilt outfits are from England nowadays, not Scotland. There are even Welsh tartans nowadays and I well remember my tailor a few years ago now joking about how there would soon be a tartan for every name in creation. I think it is great that we have something in our tradition so much sought after.