6 Nations Rugby Tournament

**Phil** · 9th February 08, 12:17 PM

Looks like the wooden spoon for Scotland but well done Wales. I hope you go on to win it. Ireland had a great comeback but just didn't quite make it.

davecolorado72 · 9th February 08, 10:34 PM

Well, Ireland had a good accounting for themselves in Paris but fell short again. Disappointing...but encouraging for the rest of the tournament. Don't see France losing though. Better them than the Brits tho.

Will all their injuries maybe the Italians can stuff em.

**McClef** · 10th February 08, 04:52 AM

In this tournament there are 3 "Brit" teams - did you mean one of them or all of them?

**Phil** · 10th February 08, 05:03 AM

I think he meant England - common mistake as you will know only too well. For the sake of others equally confused our present setup here is the United Kingdom of Great Britain (Brits) and Northern Ireland, hence UK on our passports. England, Wales and Scotland make up Britain, Northern Ireland doesn't and the Irish Republic (south) is a completely independant and separate country. To add to the confusion they also include some Northern Irish players from time to time. Most foreigners when they refer to England really mean the British Isles and most English people when referring to Britain and the British are really only referring to themselves. Confusing isn't it?

davecolorado72 · 10th February 08, 05:09 AM

Without getting into a policy debate, I guess I like to think of each 'nation' as their own entity, regardless of any outside influences from other nations.

Just my opinion on things.

Otherwise it would be the "4 nations" tourney....Britain, Italy, France, and Ireland.

**McClef** · 10th February 08, 05:45 AM

No problem Dave.

You may well think of yourself as a Coloradan first and American second, so it is over here - the Brits occupy the island of Great Britain and comprise of Welsh Scots and English who live in and move around - you get Scots in Wales and English in Scotland etc etc.

We have a common National Anthem for events when the whole Kingdom is being represented and our own individual anthems for when it is the constituent country being represented as for example in Rugby.

The Northern Ireland chap thinking of himself as British is due to the six counties of the Province of Ulster that voted to remain within the United Kingdom rather than go with the rest of Ireland. But you can bet your bottom dollar he thinks of himself as an Ulsterman first. Of course there are others who see themselves as Irish first and indeed, in Rugby, because they do not field their own team in this tournament, many will support Ireland as an all inclusive representative team.

What you will also find is that rivalries can go out of the window - when England was the only UK team in the World Cup, everyone fell behind them and the flags of St George fluttered everywhere, including Wales and Scotland!

**Phil** · 10th February 08, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by McClef

We have a common National Anthem for events when the whole Kingdom is being represented and our own individual anthems for when it is the constituent country being represented as for example in Rugby.

I have to differ on this one - I know of very few, if any, Scots who acknowledge the "National Anthem" no doubt due to its verse -
"Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King."
hardly something the population here thinks it should go along with.

In common with Cessna I have Ulster relations and they fiercely regard themselves as British first, second and last. I recently had my nose bitten off when I raised the prospect of an "Irish wedding". "It will be nothing of the kind" I was told in no uncertain terms "It will be a British wedding". Times there may have moved on but attitudes certainly have not.

Finally I have to assume that you did not visit Scotland during the rugby world cup as I only recall seeing one English flag and that was in a quiet country place in the north of Scotland. Everyone else from our then First Minister Jack McConnell down preferred to support whichever team England was playing. Nothing xenophobic there of course, just the natural Scottish regard for the underdog because let's face it, the English sporting media never tire of telling us how everyone else is just that.
I will be supporting Wales from now on but Italy this afternoon.

davecolorado72 · 13th February 08, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by McClef

You may well think of yourself as a Coloradan first and American second, so it is over here - the Brits occupy the island of Great Britain and comprise of Welsh Scots and English who live in and move around - you get Scots in Wales and English in Scotland etc etc.

I think what you're saying is a bit misleading here. In regards to National identity the state I live in has nothing to with with my national identity. My passport lists me as a US citizen, not a Coloradoan. If the US is playing Mexico in the World Cup I am pulling for the US, not Colorado.

Now if someone invaded America and colonized my country then I am sure my passport may be a bit more muddled. And there may be some national anthem playing issues.

It would be like being from co cork in ireland. Cork is my county, not my nationality. What you're proposing is that these nations have dual national identity. What I am saying is that I don't think that is necessarily appropriate.