What do you call these kilts?

**IndianaGentry** · 23rd February 08, 10:35 PM

I've received a few different answers, so now I'm throwing the question out to the masses here at XMarks... What do you call these kilts?

The popular answer has been "belted plaid," although the argument is usually that it lacks a shoulder sash. The second most popular answer has been "phillabeg," but the argument has been that it lacks any sort of pleats. It can probably be argued either way, but I have yet to find a difinitive description and name for this.

Note that the 2 guys in the center wear their higher at the front of the leg, with a bit of a "tail" in the back. The guy on the right wraps his pretty evenly. I think this is what causes the debate described above.

If you have some kind of "proof" regarding the appropriate name for this garment, please share it.

The bottom line is, I want one of these... so I'm also looking for someone who sells them. I'll appreciate any leads on this, too.

(The picture is the band Albannach, playing at the base of the Scott Monument in Edinburgh during the 2007 Fringe.)

**gilmore** · 23rd February 08, 10:56 PM

The two in the center look to be belted plaid or phillamore or great kilt, (which are all the same thing) but without the ends being secured above the waist. There really isn't a shoulder strap with with them, other than in "Braveheart" and "Rob Roy" and a couple of other movies that got it all wrong. Rather, the ends are more often fastened together or secured to the shirt of jacket or both. Here, it appears that the two in the center just let them trail behind them.

I don't know about the guy on the right. Since the belt is on the outside of the fold rather than inside it, I am not sure what he is doing.

While there are some place that sell them, you could probably put one together yourself at a fraction of that cost. You just buy a 4 to 5 yard length of tartan, hem or fringe the ends where it has been cut (NOT the selveged sides) and fold the pleats in the back and put it on. If you use the search feature you can find several threads that describe how to do this. Some have links to sites that explain this in detail. Some sites even have videos showing you how. Then, after you have put it on, you just let the longer end hang down or tuck it in in the back, rather than pulling it up over your shoulder.

**MacWage** · 23rd February 08, 11:02 PM

It is a belted plaid, though the top is put in different positions. The guy on the right has his upper part just hanging down.
I actually talked to them about those SAME belted plaids at the Greenville Games back this summer in South Carolina.
The tartan was just something they found in a fabric store in Scotland that they liked.
I asked Moondog, their roadie, on BOTK and he answered:

flangin or something like that.
The kilts are great kilts.
and I should have our pic soon
it was great meeting you
Cheers,Moondog

**turpin** · 23rd February 08, 11:15 PM

Yup, what MacWage said. when you put on a belted plaid you lie on a 54" to 60" wide by 12-15 foot long piece of fabric. Most of the length is taken up in the pleats. You lie on the pleats with the bottom of the kilt at the back of your knees, fold the aprond over your front, belt it on, and stand. Everything above your waist falls below the belt. That is the state of the kilt on the fellow on the right. The others have tucked the two apron corner in their belts. This is typical for warmer weather. In cooler weather the apron ends can be tied together and looped over the heat, or joined with the pleats over hte shoulder.

**BoldHighlander** · 23rd February 08, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by gilmore

There really isn't a shoulder strap with with them, other than in "Braveheart" and "Rob Roy" and a couple of other movies that got it all wrong.

Is this what you mean by a "shoulder strap"?

If so, that is actually two different garments he's wearing: it's a plaid seperated into a philabeg with the other portion joined together by the brooch and thrown over his shoulder.

Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean by "shoulder strap", as far as Rob Roy is concerned
(I won't go near Braveheart )

davecolorado72 · 23rd February 08, 11:25 PM

I don't know about the garment but I saw that group perform in the Rocky Mountains and they were quite good. Their energy level was crazy.

**MacWage** · 23rd February 08, 11:28 PM

In Rob Roy, there were at LEAST 2 versions of his "kilt."
In a couple scenes it is blatantly a real belted plaid (like the "swimming scene" in the beginning).
In others it is obviously 2 pieces (like in the sword fight in the end).
In MOST scenes it is more ambiguous.

In a film like Rob Roy, more than one costume are made, to account for wear and tear on set and location. I am CONVINCED (I need to ask Peter MacDonald of I am correct) that they had BOTH belted plaids and philabegs on set for Rob's outfit.

**BoldHighlander** · 23rd February 08, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by MacWage

In Rob Roy, there were at LEAST 2 versions of his "kilt."
In a couple scenes it is blatantly a real belted plaid (like the "swimming scene" in the beginning).
In others it is obviously 2 pieces (like in the sword fight in the end).
In MOST scenes it is more ambiguous.

In a film like Rob Roy, more than one costume are made, to account for wear and tear on set and location. I am CONVINCED (I need to ask Peter MacDonald of I am correct) that they had BOTH belted plaids and philabegs on set for Rob's outfit.

Yes, you are correct about there being the two different styles worn in the film. I was only refrencing the picture I posted wondering if this is what was meant by a "shoulder strap" (the photo is a production still taken of Neeson in the costume worn when he rides out to the duel at the end of Rob Roy).

**gilmore** · 23rd February 08, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by BoldHighlander

Is this what you mean by a "shoulder strap"?...

If so, that is actually two different garments he's wearing: it's a plaid seperated into a philabeg with the other portion joined together by the brooch and thrown over his shoulder.

Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean by "shoulder strap", as far as Rob Roy is concerned
(I won't go near Braveheart )

No, it was definitely something unknown outside of the movies.

I remember coming across an article not long ago on a historical dress site written by a woman knowledgeable about such who tried to put together the kilts as worn in "Braveheart" and I believe "Rob Roy" as well. She had some one wear one and exercise vigorously as if he were fighting a battle. She reported that he couldn't go more than a few minutes without having to stop the battle and readjust his strap/plaid/whatever it was in order to prevent its falling off. So, since there were no time outs at Stirling Bridge, she doubts their accuracy.