The Clearances

[Ancienne Alliance]

History is only interesting to those who have some interest in understanding its forces and in learning from its lessons. As a variant of what has been said earlier, history is written by the victors (in a military setting) but better said to be written by the SURVIVORS in all settings.


Knowledge is inherently good. Knowledge is power.

.

Spot on FM .

Thank you all for this fascinating thread.

[Jock Scot]

WELL DONE ALL!!!! I think that this very emotive subject has(so far)been handled with the upmost courtesy and respect and I am proud to have been involved.I have to say that I thought it would disolve into petty squabbles,or worse,with a lot of ill-informed argument thrown in.I am delighted to say that I was wrong.

[sharpdressedscot]

Modern Germans resent being forced to learn in primary school about the holocaust and their ancestors part in that horror wrought by men, white americans try to ignore the plight of inner city poor blacks as a longterm result of slavery and their own version of the Highland clearances involving the native americans and the american west.

I'd like to point something out. When somebody's ancestors did something that hurt the world or people in it, people tend to want to forget it ever happened. Sure, we can't erase it but we can learn from it. And not everything in history was about inventions or people discovering things or places, people died! Last year as part of our education we had to watch "Roots," it's a story of an African slave and his new life on the plantation, after we watch it our teacher proposed a good question (Not word for word): "Should we learn about things like this, even if it is very graphic?"

[1oldsarge]

The knowledge and experience that pours from this website is fascinating! And addicting!

[Galician]

I'd like to point something out. When somebody's ancestors did something that hurt the world or people in it, people tend to want to forget it ever happened. Sure, we can't erase it but we can learn from it. And not everything in history was about inventions or people discovering things or places, people died! Last year as part of our education we had to watch "Roots," it's a story of an African slave and his new life on the plantation, after we watch it our teacher proposed a good question (Not word for word): "Should we learn about things like this, even if it is very graphic?"

As a partial answer to this, SDS, I remember when "Roots" was first broadcast on TV as one of the first mini-series on that medium. News reports of the day reported how traffic stopped on those evenings, all over the country. Interest in genealogy--regardless of ethnic background--exploded in this nation as a direct result of that show. Maybe this forum itself is an indirect result of it.

[ForresterModern]

The knowledge and experience that pours from this website is fascinating! And addicting!

Thanks Sarge. That (and all the kool tartan kilts and stuff Scottish) is why I began to hang out around this forum. Interesting, interested, caring and fascinating people in fun and informative discussion.

[sharpdressedscot]

As a partial answer to this, SDS, I remember when "Roots" was first broadcast on TV as one of the first mini-series on that medium. News reports of the day reported how traffic stopped on those evenings, all over the country. Interest in genealogy--regardless of ethnic background--exploded in this nation as a direct result of that show. Maybe this forum itself is an indirect result of it.

Maybe so, I hadn't thought of that.

[Peter C.]

Thank you so much for your reply.I have no doubts whatsoever that some took advantage of the crop failures to "feather their own nest".Nothing much changes does it?Its still going on in many places in the world.

Getting back to the clearances and the potato famine. I think that the British government,local officialdom and society in general were not prepared and had no knowledge or facilities available to handle the disaster that landed on them.To put it simply they were out of their depth.Nevertheless I make no excuses for those who took advantage, of hungry peoples plight, whether they were in government or some local landlord who sat back(could they have helped?Some were in the same predicament!),did nothing and just waited for the deadful events to unfold.

Of course the potato famine was an awful episode in the much longer saga of the clearances of the Highlands and Ireland.

I am English, I was always disgusted that the British government didn't stop the people affected by the potato famine from starving. Now we are trying to stop people in Africa from starving and it is very difficult even today.

Having read your very wize words Jock, I wonder why I didn't think of that myself. It seems so obvious when it is put infront of you. thank you Jock.

I think the moral of this is that we should learn about history, be proud of the good bits, but not too proud, regret the bad bits if you like, but learn from them.

Then if we learn from the bad bits, those poor people who suffered will have done more for the world than they could ever imagine.

Great thread, I've learned a lot.

Peter

[Ozman1944]

I remember we wide-eyed children listening with bated breath as Sister Miriam - a first generation Scot - setting aside the 'official' history book, related how her grand parents were flushed out by their own "Lairds" setting fire to the heather in which they had taken refuge.
My own Great Grandparents, though saying little, seemed to have an aversion to Authority/Clan chief figures also.... They flatly refused to attend any 'Re-gathering of the Clans' in Australia. 'We ha' enough a' that a'fore' and that always closed the subject.

[Alan H]

John Prebble's book is an excellent treatise on the subject. It's available here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Highland-Cle.../dp/0140028374 . It's not too textbook-like and terribly informative.

To perhaps clarify my original post...
My intent was to illustrate how all too often aficionados of all-things-Scottish are under-informed regarding the Clearances.

Many can describe dozens of tartans down to the thread counts, but know bupkus about the translocation or transportion of entire regions of the Highlands - areas even today that are void of humans.

All too often Scotland is illustrated with tartan kitsch, Highlandism, Bravehearters, and Brigadoonery - all having origins in the mid 19th century. And even notables such as Sir Walter Scott were in complete agreement with turning the Highlands into a single vast sheep farm.

On the flip side, without the Clearances much of North America's, Australia's, and New Zealand's recent histories would be significantly different.

Don't let your knowledge of Scottish history stop at Culloden.

Slainte yall,
steve

This sounds like a book I need to read. Thanks for this thread, it's one of the very best I've seen here in a long time.

As for history, or even geography I am amazed at how many people, even well-educated people in the USA can not do simple things like point to a State on a map of the USA when that state is named. I remember talking about Franklin Roosevelt with some college friends, years ago. I got blank looks. .....and he'd been President during their lifetimes!!! (just barely, but STILL).


A curriculum of California State History is essentially non-existent in California high schools. See, it's not on the State Exit Exams, so teachers are thoroughly discouraged from teaching it. I could rant on that, but will refrain. Suffice it to say that there's not a single kid in California that has to drive more than 75 miles to find SOMETHING fascinating from the 250 years (only 250 years!) of recorded human history in California, and yet I bet that the overwhelming majority have never been to a Mission, or a Gold Rush town, or Fort Ross.