Jewish Tartan

[gilmore]

I don't see what the fuss is about.

As was determined in two previous threads, Scottish Jews have been wearing the Gordon tartan as an identification of being Jewish for at least five to seven decades----according to the photographic proof---and perhaps as long as a century.

Although "official" tartans are said to be so by virtue of authorization of the governing person (in the case of clans) or body (in the cases of states, counties, religious denominations, etc.), this did not happen here, despite the website's claims. It is mentioned that a Scots-born rabbi living in Scotland initiated the design. (I had never heard of him before, not that that means very much, though the most two respected rabbis in Scotland are said to be a father and his daughter, the Zornbergs.) Of course, there is no official Jewish governing body. How could there be? What or who would presume to act as such?

It is entirely appropriate, I suppose, that it doesn't mix linen with wool, but has anyone ever heard of a linen-wool blend tartan kilt? Or a linen-wool blend non-tartan kilt? Or a linen kilt?

So, this is simply a fashion tartan designed by a gentile, basing as its authenticity its registration as Jewish with a non-Jewish body, the STA, that is being sold to Jews as Jewish.

Far be it from me to dissuade anyone from spending his money foolishly, needlessly or inappropriately, but to my mind vox populi vox d_i, the voice of the people is the voice of G_D, and the Jewish people of Scotland have spoken consistently and for longer than most reading this have been alive. For a variety of reasons that I won't repeat here again, they have chosen for themselves the Gordon tartan as the one that they wear to identify themselves as Jewish. Jews' taking the name Gordon goes back much further, to at least the early nineteeth century when the Tsarist government began requiring Jews to use surnames, and likely further than that, to the late eighteenth century.

And according to Arlen's rabbi, the custom of Scots Jews (or would it be Jewish Scots?) wearing the Gordon tartan is still alive and well.

If you are interested in pursuing this, it has been fairly thoroughly discussed in two earlier threads that you could find here on X Marks by searching for Jewish tartan. If you want more info, I can direct you to a Jewish genealogical mailing list's archives that also contain threads on the subject.

[Ember DarkStar]

Now that's an intersting tartan ... I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I do think it's rather cool that there's a Jewish Tartan.

[Panache]

I would like to remind all that here on X Marks the Scot we show courtesy when we post our views.

gilmore offers some interesting points but I would like to point out that cloth is cloth. Meaning and importance are in the eyes of the beholder. There is history of course, but frankly that really comes to mean that someone in the past assigned value to a thing. What is worthless to some is priceless to others.

Let's be careful in assigning the label "foolish" to things.

And let us remain the Ladies and Gentlemen of X Marks the Scot.

Respectfully

Jamie

[gilmore]

<< There is a Scottish name MacAbee... >>

Is there a menorah in the center of their clan badge?

Slainte,
steve

Of course not, but the menorah was the symbol used in the cap badge by the famous WWI British Jewish Legion after it had been reformed in Palestine after the war, with "kadima," the Hebrew for "forward, eastward" as the motto beneath it. There is a drawing of it in the article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Legion

I happen to have one.

The menorah is also on gravestones as a symbol of the 38th Battalion, a forerunner of the Jewish Legion, in the Trumpeldor Cemetery of Tel Aviv.

[Dukeof Kircaldy]

Yeah, it would be 100% wool. Kosher means that there is no mixing of linen and wool, which is something called shatnes. Some of my wife's family are Orthodox and told me about this.

Shatnes is a no-no.

[Monkey@Arms]

When it rains it pours. Seems like there was others thinking along the same lines, but their Jewish tartan is still in the planning stage:

http://www.jewishtelegraph.com/gla_news.html

While I appreciate Gilmore's views on the historical use of the Gordon tartan, I have no problems with more tartans with a Jewish affiliation being developed, anymore than I do the newly registered tartans produced by USA Kilts.

The more the merrier.

Best regards,

Jake

[Dukeof Kircaldy]

Never mind they all clash with the Tartan kipot sold here.
http://www.a-zara.com/p218000.htm

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I don't see a need for religious-based tartans. Despite having an established church (The Church of Scotland) Scotland is a secular nation with a thriving multi-cultural, and multi-faith, secular population. Tartans based on family, or location (district tartans), show the wearer to be an integrated part of that community, even if their ancestral roots come from some other place.

Religion-based tartans would seem to be divisive, rather than inclusive, as they imply that their use should be restricted only to persons of that faith.

That there isn't a Presbyterian tartan, or a Catholic tartan, or an Episcopalian or Hindu tartan, speaks volumes for the cultural attitude which subscribes to the belief that a person's religion is a private matter between himself and God. In Scotland, at least, this tolerance of belief structures can be traced back to the reign of Queen Mary, who wished to give her subjects the right to worship as they pleased. This attitude still pervades most of present day Scottish society and, indeed, the entirety of the mainstream of western European cultural thought.

Insofar as western society, as a whole, is tolerant of most belief structures why should it be necessary to attempt to set oneself apart from the mainstream by creating a sense of "a closed community within an open society"? Surely the outward appearance is one of choosing sides or, perhaps more accurately, abandoning or turning one's back on the greater community in which they live.

Although many individuals have turned tartan and tartan wearing into a near religion, it is, and always has been, a flag of secular allegiance.

Perhaps it would be wise to leave it so.

[Dukeof Kircaldy]

I am not sure how to handle MacMillan of Rathdown's critique as I am only ger toshav (a gentile who lives amongst Jews--my wife's family) rather than a Jew. The best way might be to say that Jews have always been a bit clannish given there were 12 tribes of Israel and now there are Sephardim, Ashkenazim, and Mizrahim. Not to mention Smaller Jewish groups such as the Georgian Jews and Mountain Jews from the Caucasus; Indian Jews including the Bene Israel, Bnei Menashe, Cochin Jews and Bene Ephraim; the Romaniotes of Greece; the Italkim or Bené Roma of Italy; the Teimanim from the Yemen and Oman; various African Jews, including most numerously the Beta Israel of Ethiopia; the Bukharan Jews of Central Asia; and Chinese Jews, most notably the Kaifeng Jews, as well as various other distinct but now extinct communities.

So, maybe we could have tartan for each tribe or ethnic Jewish division instead of having one blanket Jewish tartan. As they say, "Two Jews, three opinions".

The thing is that I had a fun time trying to explain why I wear the Forbes tartan when my surname is not Forbes to my wife. She couldn't get the concept of affiliated septs and families. Not sure how that happened when she knows her tribe.

And given that there are tartans for various organisations and loads of other things, why not a Jewish Tartan?

The real question is which one?

Or better yet, what would Jerry Sadowitz say?

[Finn]

As an Protestant apostate adhering to a modern reinvention of an older set of beliefs, I do not see a problem with tartans for various religions. It can be seen as divisive or as a celebration of diversity. In our increasingly one-world culture, it is less an issue of group labelling and more self-identification.
Many people have chosen to create tartans for their families or groups. Why not Jewish? Nobody has said that Jews can only wear the new tartan, or that non-Jews can't.
While my wife is in a prolonged conversion, it is not one that I would wear; but, I accept and welcome it to the kilted community.