Any pilots out there?

[oldfool]

Since i cant seem to get registered for and pilot forum groups (they all want to know that you already fly...i want to learn), i figured that some of my fellow kilties who are pilots can answer me a question or two.....

So here's the deal: I signed up for flight lessons with an official cessna training center here in denver. My goals were mostly to learn something new as well as occasionally visit places that would be too far to drive over a weekend with the wife and baby.

Then i got into my head that I could visit my parents-in-law over a LONG weekend (weather permitting). From denver to pittsburgh it's about 1100 nautical miles. Is it practical to bring the wife, baby and myself in a single engine rented (at $120/hour to $170/hour) airplane to a place like pittsburgh? I am still too new to figure out all the gas costs, but the way it looks, most rental planes burn about 10-12 gallons per hour ($5/gallon these days) and most rental planes go about 120 miles per hour. So i ask again, is it remarkably stupid for me to contemplate that a private-plane ride is a practical idea for this kind of trip? Or should i just fly the commercial airlines for long distances?

Thoughts, ideas, comments, web-links and such would be greatly appreciated.

I have a commercial license, am instrument rated with multi engine. I have had that since 1964. I have the last rating I got and it is a paper license. I retired from flying in November of last year. I am not sure of how many hours I have as I quit keeping a log book back in the 70's. In the last 7 years I flew more than 5000 hours. I started in a Cessna 140. My first commercial flight was a Cessna 172 and so was my last. In the middle I flew a host of other airplanes including Boeing 720's, 727's ,707's and DC10's. All for money. Those are my qualifications.

Flying is like preaching It's a calling. If you must fly then sell your wife and kids to the Arab slave trade, hold up a liqueur store or two, sell you soul to the devil and fly. If you don't have the calling then rent a limo and driver and have a nice time it will be cheaper and with a whole lot less liability.

[hallmarktex]

I've been a SEL (single engine land) private pilot for about 28 years now. Never did get that instrument rating (that's been on my 'to-do' list for about 28 years). That said, I find that flying in my own plane from Dallas to Southern Colorado for example (just over 4 hours) is break even in terms of total cost to drive and a huge savings in terms of time and fatigue. If you're flying more than 3 people then flying yourself is way ahead of flying commercial. Double that trip and the cost vs. commercial gets much closer.

If you're renting then you can't fly distances economically. A 172 rents for $120/hr but you can buy, fuel, and maintain a used 172 for half that. If you're serious about wanting to fly and think, based on your preview flight, that you'll love it then you will be way ahead if you buy a plane and learn to fly in it.

But as has been said before, if you love it you can make it work out. If it's purely about economy, then take the bus.

[ozone]

thank you everyone for the various inputs. I personally have wanted to fly since i was a kid at age two (my first word was "airplane"). It's only taken me 35 years since then to take the plunge. I dont think i will sell my wife and kid to arab slave traders, but i will try a few lessons and see how things go from there. So far, I am only into this by about $370 (books and CD's for instruction).

I figure that if i dont like stuff after spending about $1k-$2k then i can always walk away and go commercial. Of course that is the equivalent of 2-3 kilts....so perhaps I need to think carefully here.

I can also see now that I need to reel in my expectations for distance traveled if i am thinking purely economically. The 400 mile radius from Denver international airport is still pretty cool though....black hills, salt lake, vegas, santa fe, jackson hole, and so on....

So, owning a plane can be cheaper eh? What are the recurring costs besides gasoline these days?

[zeeew]

Owning a plane can be cheaper if you fly enough hours per year. Planes have fixed costs such as annual inspections, hanger or ramp rent, etc. Figure around 100 hours per year or so to save money own vs rent.
I pay 150 hour wet (includes fuel and oil) for a 182, but it cruises at about 140 mph and carries an honest 4 people and light (overnite) baggage.

[hallmarktex]

Recurring costs, as mentioned, include fuel, oil, annual inspections, and hanger/tie-down. Annual inspections are the most expensive predictable cost (there will be surprises) and will vary depending on what kind of aircraft you buy from about $700 a year on up.

Here's the real surprise, if you purchase a plane and keep it maintained you will likely be able to sell it for more than you paid for it. Especially now as prices are depressed along with most "luxury" items in the economy. I bought a single engine plane for my family to fly in and kept it for ten years before we decided it was time for a change. At one time it was valued at well over twice what I paid for it and I ended up selling it last summer at about 1.8 times my initial purchase price. I only did routine maintenance and some minor upgrades. I also saved money by having friends who could help me out with annual inspections and such, which kept overall costs down.

Notice that if you get one that is going to be a maintenance hog then you may not break even. A wise airplane purchase, however, can almost always be sold after several years for more than it was bought for.

YMMV

[ozone]

What planes are considered reliable?

I have wandered through the cirrus and diamond aircraft websites and i like the idea of lots of carbon fiber to cut down on weight, allow for sleek designs and so-on. Mooney seems to have lots of speed (and fuel costs). Piper seems to be busy re-inventing itself. Cessna....well at least you always know what your are getting (though they seem to charge ALOT for what you get).

Am I missing some brands that i should be looking at? (assuming I don't puke or fall out of the sky on my first lesson or something silly like that)

[zeeew]

Mooneys are a bit cramped in the cabin, but they do pretty well for speed. They can cruise at around 175 mph or so with a 200 hp engine. You dont have to have a high performane rating. I need a rating for the 230 hp Cessna 182 that I fly, but it only cruises at about 140. But it can carry more. Always tradeoffs. What do you prefer? Weight carrying, speed, low wing, high wing? Tail wheel for rough fields?
Go to your local airport and ask a few questions, most respectable flight instructors will spend a few minutes to answer some questions. They will also probly have a buying guide or 2 that can give some basic reliability issues, or expensive AD's a particular model may have. Better yet, if you can, see if you can help out for a few hours a week, I spent pretty much a full summer helping fuel planes and mix chemicals for a spraying outfit, learned lots, worked hard, had fun!