Planning for an Argyll

[Bugbear]

* After I created this thread, I had to back off on some of the higher cost items I have been planning. They're still on the table, but pushed back a little. *

If, like some, you are on a tight budget then your best investment is a black Argyll jacket and two black waistcoats-- one 3 button (like those worn with a PC) and the other a standard six button affair.

Six-button waistcoat + Argyll, & four-in-hand tie = day wear/dressy evening wear = suit and tie.
Three-button waistcoat + Argyll & bow tie = formal evening wear = tuxedo.

So there you have it, the basic formula for being well-dressed on a budget:

[1(Argyll Jacket) + 2(waistcoats)] - (white socks) = 1 Well Dressed Gentleman.

From Jock Scot's thread "A trans-Atlantic thing?"


That makes sense, and i'm subtracting the white hose. I could start with the black Argyll jacket because I might not be able to afford all three at the same time.

If anybody has one, is the black Argyll jacket (or Argyle) shown here J. Higgins, Ltd. -- Daywear Outfit a good quality jacket?
In the next round of spending, I could add their five button waistcoat to that. I have heard the waistcoat is a good value.
They don't seem to sell a Prince Charlie waistcoat on it's own, but perhaps it would be a good starting point for the outfits. Those are also closest to what I can afford if it is an adequately constructed jacket.


Price isn't the only thing I'm considering, so I'm not ruling out the folowing:
The Celtic Croft sells both a black Argyll jacket with vest, and a Prince Charlie vest on it's own. This might be a good option to get all three from the same source; sometimes that is worth the higher price.


The Scottish Tartans Museum's Black Argyle kilt jacket and five button Argyle vest are another sound option. I would need to add a Prince Charlie waistcoat at some point.
As I said, I won't rule out either of these options just because they are higher prices; I don't feel I need to ask about their quality. I do have to weigh the options on what I am able to afford, though.

* I just noticed one other source for the Argyll jacket and vest. USA Kilt's jackets are in that same price range. I have read their quality is very good too. I prefer to order from a US company and avoid dealing with import issues on my own if possible. *

[billmcc]

It don't have a J. Higgins kilt jacket so I can't comment on quality.

Keep in mind that J. Higgins makes their jackets in house. So, they should be able to make you a PC type vest out of the same material they use for their Argyll style jackets. According to the website, the black Argyll waistcoat is made of the same material as their black jackets. So, the jacket and both vests should match.

[Bugbear]

Thanks, billmcc. I will keep that in mind.

Just that it is wool, makes it a higher quality garment than some of the other options I have explored.

[turpin]

I have a J.Higgins Crail, which is similar to the Argyll but with fewer cuff and pocket frills. It is good quality work, made of good wool bu not as heavy as many I've seen, which is good for where I live.

[Carolina Kiltman]

I have the J. Higgins Braemer, the argyle with the PC cuffs and silver buttons. All wool, perfect fit the first try. They will exchange if fit is not right. Only work of caution, they are made exactly to size, I don't dare gain any size around the chest or it will be too small. So if you are a between size, order the larger one. I have a 5 button vest my wife made, bought the buttons from J. Higgins (so they would match) now have a nice evening wear ensemble (with bow tie) or very dressy suit, with a coloured four-in-hand. Colour matches one in my kilt. Very pleased with both material quality and workmanship.

[robthehiker]

Ted, I have their Argyll and I like it very much. It was relatively inexpensive and the build quality is good. I ordered a 44T as I am a 42T in a suit. It is a touch large but a 42T would have been too small. The waistcoat I ordered in the same size feels a bit long and I have to get it altered.

All in all I was pleased with the jacket and the service.

[Bugbear]

Thanks, guys, for your replies.

It's sounding good. The lighter wool probably would be a plus out here.
I guess I do need to think about which kind of cuffs would be best for this use of the Argyll..

So far those are the best deals I have found on these items; I stay away from Ebay and those type of things. it would also be nice to start out with a new jacket and pair of waistcoats.

[Bugbear]

Here's a variation on the same theme.

I have two Argylls-- one is a light grey tweed, the other black barathea. I have two waistcoats that I wear with my black Argyll (but not at the same time!). Both are black and one is a 3-button (as would be worn with a PC) and the other a 6-button (as might be worn with a three piece suit). If the event is "black tie" (ie: tuxedos) then I pop on the 3-button waistcoat and black bow tie and I'm off to the event. If it's a dressy day or evening event (when a conservative suit would be appropriate) I opt for the 6-button vest and a conservative striped tie. I only wear white shirts with the black Argyll, although I tend to favour light blue Oxford cloth button-downs with the tweed. I wear the same same conservative striped tie with the tweed jacket that I wear with the dressier Argyll-- it makes dressing much easier, and frankly I don't care if it tones with the stripes in my kilt. My life is more interesting that worrying about neckties!

from neeah613l's thread "Argyll- with or without vest?"


So, at some point in the future, I could look into a tweed or non-evening colored Argyll to add to that collection.

Going back to the cuffs, I found and readJamieKerr's thread "Crail vs. Argyle."

From that, I gather that at a formal event, no one will be flabbergasted over the cuff style on a black Argyll-like jacket...
Here's the quote I'm looking at from that thread:

If you would prefer a Crail then by all means get a Crail. It can be argued that the gauntlet cuffs are dressier. (one reason why they are found on a regulation doublet which is considered by many to be the dressiest jacket) That said if you are getting a jacket that will serve several uses (i.e. dressy day wear to black tie) then get the one you like. You won't be considered incorrect.

I would suggest you get a matching waistcoat as this will make the outfit a bit dressier when you need it to be. As far as colour, if you want to use it for a black tie affair get the jacket in black. If you don't then a dark grey would be quite nice.

* He quotes James MacMillan on collar differences. *

James, I think the variations in the collar are usually slight and they depend on the maker. The Crail/Braemar/Argyle isn't defined by the collar. The only jacket I know of that is known for a distinct collar is the Brian Boru, which has the shawl collar.

[Carolina Kiltman]

From that, I gather that at a formal event, no one will be flabbergasted over the cuff style on a black Argyll-like jacket...
Here's the quote I'm looking at from that thread:

You are absolutely correct! At our last Burns Night Supper, there was a wide range. One Sherifmuir (sp?), two Montrose, several PC's, a number of Military Mess jackets, complete with medals, and Argyl, and Braemer. Absolutely no comments about what anyone was wearing. (not even the chap who wore his kilt hose over the knees!)

Guess we are just a polite bunch.

[Bugbear]

Well, I would much rather go unnoticed because of my clothing one way or the other at a formal event.

I prefer to goe easy on the adornments and ornaments and a PC sounds like it is covered with shiney buttons. A tuxedo is not at all like that. A few silver buttons might be nice, though...

This would be a jacket to function as both day wear and evening wear, formal and dressy; all without having to have twelve different jackets. Ehh, minus the white hose of course...

* The formal events would be rare for me, but just in case...